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 Moderated by: bartmanaz  
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matthepp
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Mana: 
Hey all,
I appreciate all the great info available on this forum.  The family and some friends are planning a Thanksgiving week sailing adventure to Sonora.  The plan is to trailer down our Catalina 22 to Kino and sail/camp on Tiburon for several days, weather permitting.  We've been down there once before kiteboarding and had a blast.  It looks like, in order to bring the boat, we need to get the TIP at km 21 south of Nogales.  For that we need  (Colorado) boat registration, trailer registration (which might be a little tricky), and hauling vehicle registration.  In addition we'll have to get fishing license in Kino and a Seri tiburon permit in Kino.  I guess Mexican boat insurance is not required to anchor/day sail. 

If any of this seems incorrect/incomplete/insane, I'd love to hear y'alls input.
Fair winds,
Matt

Steve W.
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Boat liability ins will be required if you go to a marina, they will ask for it. Not sure if it is required by law. You did not mention Car ins. law requires liability. Also need All registration, Two friends when down some time ago(6 years) the car in one name and the boat in the others name, After some hour long talking it was decide that was OK.

Ian948
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Matt,

Recommend getting the TIP online - very quick you will normally have within a week by DHL or Fedex , before you leave. Worked like a dream for me and also a buddy who did it online few weeks back.

I believe you just put your trailer VIN number on the application and it is covered by the boats TIP.

Ramp at Kino used to be $25 haul in and out - worth using their tractor not your truck !!

Cheers

Ian ( ex Pagosa )

barato
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Mana: 
how are your boat handling skills? the area between Kino and Tiburon has a scary rep for crazy currents due to tidal rip (due to all water of the SOC trying to shove through the narrow gaps between Midriff islands). like tidal currents of 6+ kts. you have a kicker? not trying to scare you but you definitely want to read up on it first and maybe talk to some locals for best route for safe passage in a sailboat.

matthepp
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Thanks for the heads up.  I've heard about the currents in the Infiernillo Channel.  I've heard it's more moderate if you're further south in the open.  We've got a 10 HP motor in case.
So I think I might have border issues as the boat registration is current in my name, but the trailer has permanent Arizona plates from a previous owner.  Do you think I'll make it through?

Hook
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You dont mention if you're coming to San Carlos. Are you?

If not, there are no marinas in Kino, so I doubt you'll need a TIP. Unless, of course, they insist at K21.

Car liability is NOT mandatory in Mexico, I believe. Look at all the Mexicans driving around without it. Just highly recommended.

matthepp
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Hey Hook,
We aren't planning on visiting San Carlos on this trip, just Kino. I would love to avoid the TIP paperwork. Just using the Kino ramp and anchoring with the 22' Catalina for a week. Last year I just had a blast kiting at Kino. Perfect 9-12m conditions 6 out of 7 days.
So here's my latest idea: my friend who is also traveling down has a current trailer registration (for a different trailer). If we have that maybe we can get by?

Hook
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Photoshop is a very creative software program, Matt.

RichD
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I would get some local advice from the Kino area. I am not sure if there are safe anchorages around Tiburon. Previous comments about currents need to be heeded. Try to time transit around the island at slack tide. Launching in Kino can be quite an adventure if the sea kicks up. Good luck and have fun.

Sumner
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RichD wrote: ..... Launching in Kino can be quite an adventure if the sea kicks up. Good luck and have fun.
First we are new on the forum and hope to do the Sea of Cortez at some point.  We've only been sailing a couple years but have made it to Canada, some western states and Florida.  We have a MacGregor 26S, the classic, not the high HP one, and last spring added an Endeavour 37 as a second boat for a while.  We would be towing the Mac down there.

Now the question.  Kino looks like for us a good place to start an extended trip from, so I've been seeking info on the place.  I found a place there to safely leave the tow vehicle and have seen that there are a couple ramps there, but don't know where.  Could someone give me a location so that I could Google Earth them and also keep the info for later.

Thanks,

Sumner and Ruth

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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Hook
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What is your cruise speed and range under power in that Mac?

Sumner
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Hook wrote: What is your cruise speed and range under power in that Mac?
It is the displacement...



...hull, so max speed is about 7 knots.  We usually run between 5-6 if we are on the outboard. 

I installed a 19 gallon inboard tank ...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-36.html

...and we get 9-10 mpg, so on the tank 160 miles would leave us a cushion,

Sum

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Steve W.
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Hook you got me thinking about Car liability is NOT mandatory in Mexico.
The first 4 site I checked said that it was mandatory, then I hit a site that said "Mandatory  automobile liability insurance became law in Jalisco  October 4, 1999" so that made me think that maybe there was not a national law. so did more looking.
 More site with statements like Under Mexican law, it is a felony to not carry at least civil liability insurance issued by a Mexican-based company.
 Then I found this
The US State Department strongly recommends you purchase a full coverage insurance policy that will cover the cost of bail. Please be aware that if you are involved in an automobile accident, you will be taken into police custody until it is determined who is at fault and whether you have the ability to pay any penalty.

I think that explains the reason why so many say mandatory/necessary insurance is needed but it lead me to believe that you may be right that insurance is not mandatory by law.


Steve

Steve W.
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The guide book that I have show the ramp on the beach next to the pier.

Here are some way point that I have use and a lot that have been given to me for anchor, but remember most are open road stead so if the wind changes they could become lee shore.
Isla Pelicano
28' 48.96  111' 58.15
28' 48.37  111' 57.98
south of town
28' 45.75  111' 56.455
Isla Tiburon
28' 47.16  112' 16.2
28' 45.94  112' 16.46
28' 45.44  112' 19.41
28' 53.5    112' 33.6
Isla Turner
28' 43.77  112' 17.5
28' 43.89  112' 17.86
Isla San Esteban
28' 41.36  112' 32.75
28' 41.38  112' 32.76
28' 43.81  112' 34.36

Sumner
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Steve W. wrote: The guide book that I have show the ramp on the beach next to the pier."


Thanks.  Looks like ....




...it is 6-7 miles from the.....



.... enclosed storage yard.

Thanks for all of the info guys.  It will help us and Matt you guys have a great trip and please post a trip report and pictures when you get a chance,

Sum and Ruth

Our Endeavour 37

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matthepp
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Thanks all.  I think we have it figured out so we can get a tip.  we re-registered so the hauling vehicle, trailer, and boat are all registered in my friend's name. 
The ramp shown in the post above is at the Islandia Marina:
islandia
You can see in their photos that the ramp is a little 'rustic.'  We might be able to launch out swing-keel Catalina 22 there.   There is a bigger ramp north of Kino Nuevo, including a tractor launch service.  Contact the club deportivo.  I've heard there can be some problematic on-shore swell when the nortes get blowing and to watch for rocks just to the south of the launch.  I'll try to post a trip report on our return.
Cheers,

Hook
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Sumner:

IMO, if there is a way you could get dropped in Kino and then end up your trip in San Carlos, it would be the way to go.

If we assume that you would be doing your trip during the traditional winter sailing months, it's no fun beating your way back north up to Kino, past Punta Baja.

Consider a route that takes you across to Bahia de Los Angeles region, including Puerto Refugio (I trust you have read about the sometimes hellacious winds in this region) and then south to La Paz. This is where cruisers traditional depart for mainland Mexico from Mazatlan south, or where they turn back north and retrace their route. Once you make the Concepcion area, again, you could cross back to San Carlos and be certain that you could retrieve the boat in virtually any conditions. The same cant be said of Kino. And the close anchorages to the Kino ramps are marginal. Lots of good anchorages, slips and an excellent boat ramp at Marina San Carlos.

Of course, this means having the vehicle and trailer shuttled between the two points. I expect you could find someone to do this, by plying the San Carlos message boards. I would not be opposed to doing this; the drive is not that far and the road to Kino has recently been improved. I have ferried kayakers up there more than once: by boat and by car. Lots of vehicle/storage options here. And a very comfortable town to conclude your journey. The same cant be said of Kino, IMO.

EDIT: I guess one option would be to leave the trailer in Kino and then simply hire someone to drive you to Kino from San Carlos. A slip for a day for you would probably be about 15.00.

Matt: will the friend, whose name the vehicles have been registered under, be accompanying you?

Last edited on Fri Nov 18th, 2011 05:34 pm by Hook

matthepp
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Yeah, he's pulling the boat with his vehicle.  What is better than having a diesel?  Having a friend that has a diesel!

Last edited on Fri Nov 18th, 2011 05:16 pm by matthepp

Hook
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Just wanted to make sure he was with you. Bringing in vehicles without the registered owner present can stop you dead. Sometimes a letter granting you permission (without him) works, sometimes it doesnt.

Jimmy
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Lots of responces...You really need to watch the currents up there!!!

Ven e disfruta...Come and Enjoy.

Sumner
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Hook wrote: Sumner:

IMO, if there is a way you could get dropped in Kino and then end up your trip in San Carlos, it would be the way to go.................
EDIT: I guess one option would be to leave the trailer in Kino and then simply hire someone to drive you to Kino from San Carlos. A slip for a day for you would probably be about 15.00.?


Thanks for the info and I'll make a copy of it.  I kind of doubt that we will make this trip until we tire of the Endeavour we have in Florida now and then hopefully we are not too old :(.  We are keeping the Mac for trips that we need to trailer too so will have her even when the Endeavour has gone to  a new home.

Hopefully your good info will help someone else also, thanks,

Sum and Ruth

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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matthepp
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Okay, we're back form our Thanksgiving Week sailing trip to Kino.  Mostly we had a great time but there were a few hassles.  The big lesson I learned is that it's NOT worth the border delays to bring in a boat for a week unless your tow vehicle, trailer, and boat paperwork (title and registration) is perfect.  We cobbled together what we hoped would be good enough.  It was, eventually, but hours were spent both going in and out of Nogales while officials dragged their feet and pondered.  The only reason we even needed the paperwork was to get though the checkpoint right there at Km 21.  We stayed at Islandia Marina in Kino Viejo.  Saul there is a wealth of local knowledge.  He has a 4wd Toyota and managed to launch and haul out our single axle Catalina 22 on the sketchiest ramp I've ever seen!  We had perfect conditions sailing to and from Isla Tiburon.  We anchored in Bahia de Los Perros (Dog Bay) at the south end of the island in 1 fathom with a sandy bottom.  Had a blast snorkelling for clams, caracoles, sand dollars, etc.  Even caught a few small tuna (I think) while sailing.  The current warnings are to be heeded.  We stayed over an extra day while the wind was blowing over 20 knots.  A short day-sail in current-driven waves packed a whole days worth of sailing adventure into 45 minutes.  The next day good wind conditions and appropriate tide timing changed everything.  The only bad side of our sailing trip was that we quickly went through the beer rations and made it back to the mainland with just a few fingers of tequila left!

Attached Image (viewed 123 times):

islandia launch.gif

Sumner
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Matt thanks for the update on the trip and glad that overall it was a good one. 

Where exactly was the ramp?  Do you have a GPS position by any chance ?

Thanks,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

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matthepp
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Sumner,
The Islandia ramp is maybe 200 yards NW down the beach from the pier that you posted the pic of.  I'll bet you could put your Mac 26 in there.

Sumner
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matthepp wrote: Sumner,
The Islandia ramp is maybe 200 yards NW down the beach from the pier that you posted the pic of.  I'll bet you could put your Mac 26 in there.

Thanks, I thought it must be somewhere in that area from the directions to the place on their web site.  Would you feel good leaving a vehicle there for a month or so if they do that for a fee?

Thanks,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

matthepp
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Sumner,
I'm sure your vehicle would be fine.  There are lots of gringo RV's that spend the year there.  They lock up at night, and Larry the night guard is very proficient with his slingshot.  I'll bet they would drive your rig down to San Carlos if you go one-way per Hook's suggestion.
I enjoyed your shots from Hite.  Can't wait to do a trip down there next fall.  It's pretty close to us (relatively).

Attached Image (viewed 129 times):

infiernillo crossing.jpg

Sumner
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matthepp wrote: Sumner,
I'm sure your vehicle would be fine......
I enjoyed your shots from Hite.  Can't wait to do a trip down there next fall.  It's pretty close to us (relatively).
Thanks and when you go to Hite and come thru Blanding on 191 look us up.  We are easy to find, just across from the Super 8. 

We were driving up to Monticello the other day and it was so clear that we could see the mountain range just to the east of 550 between Ouray and you, 80-90 miles away.  I'd taken Ruth over there a couple years ago and pointed that out to her.

The other thing is that if we are home when you go we might be able to ferry your vehicle for you between say Hite and Halls Crossing.  We put in down at Page and then had a friend take our tow vehicle home and we called him when we got to Halls and he brought it back out and picked us up. 

We still want to finish our 'sail the length of Lake Powell' deal and might do that next fall if things work out, but I've promised Ruth a road trip and she wants to do the length of 191 from Mexico to Canada.  I've done a lot of it at different times here and there, but never the whole route.  Tons of things to see on 191 in AZ, Ut, Wyo. and MT,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Last edited on Wed Nov 30th, 2011 04:25 pm by Sumner



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