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Trouble getting your Trust or Deed  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 09:07 pm
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thefoxfamily
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Mana: 
How many folks out there are having trouble getting their Trust.  We paid in full for our home June 2016 and still have no trust in our name.  We understand that HSBC and Interaccion had problems; however, I have spoken to others that have had HSBC and got their trust over 1.5 years ago.
We were told by our realtor that no problem the home is ours, but others say "NO"   It would belong to whom ever has the trust.
Feel free to give any suggestions.:X .  THANKS

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 Posted: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 11:27 pm
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maryt
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Sounds like your realtor is not doing his/her job. These things can take time depending on the state of the trust on the house when you bought it but your realtor should be bull dogging it and be able to tell you where you are in the process. Have you already paid the full commission to the realtor?

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 Posted: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 12:35 am
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Bullshipper
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The notary is usually in charge of securing the trust, not the realtor, in my experience. If I didn't have mine in 90 days I would be shaking some trees.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 01:32 pm
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stephenjay
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My trust is currently in process, it has been a year, the notario is in charge, my trust is currently in Guaymas going from one government entity to the next, there is no motivation to process quickly, you see if you work in one of the offices job security is having a tall stack of papers on your desk, the stack says I am doing the best I can, hahaha.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 02:22 pm
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Hook
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Our trust used to be through Interacciones, before they recently sold to Banorte. We got it about 11 years ago and had the documents back from Mexico City in just over 30 days. It was unheard of, at the time. About the only thing we can say bad about Interacciones, in all those years,, is that they were tardy in making changes in the details of our lives. Like when we moved in the States or when we changed email addresses. Those both took more than two tries to get changed. It didnt affect our trust, but it did affect getting important notifications from them.


At the time we initiated it, there were many horror stories about trusts taking years through Banamex, Bancomer and, yes, HSBC. In the subsequent years, some of those banks moved their trust offices far away in Mexico or closed them altogether. I remember hearing stories about lost documents by many individuals, especially with Bancomer. These same stories were circulating on social media from other parts of Mexico, so it was not confined to branches near San Carlos.


The town was also smarting from a scandal involving a very high profile real estate business in town that was accused by homeowners of putting themselves as beneficiaries on trust documents. This was sometimes discovered when the original owners died, which was a little too late.


There was also a very public situation where some realtors and homeowners in town were trusting a businesswomen in town with making their trust payments for them. She ran some type of "facilitating" business for transactions that persons who do not speak English felt uncomfortable doing, like servicing a trust. Turns out she was keeping the money, or so her clients said, when they approached their banks. There was no record of their payments with the bank. A few days after this news broke in town, her office caught fire and all her records were destroyed. 


I'm not certain if a notario is in charge of securing a trust or simply recording it. Whichever it is, the two biggest contributors to trust delays that I have heard about in this town (outside of actual fraud) are delays in the trust departments of incompetent banks and delays getting the trust recorded in Mexico City (and returned) by some governmental entity. I have always assumed that the Mexico City step is being handled by the notario, but I'm not certain about that. 


People whom I have known, that have had delays of more than a year, DO inquire with their notario, but the problem is always elsewhere, not their office, in my experience. See above. Yes, there were rather incompetent notarios back then (probably still are), but the one that virtually all real estate agents trusted the most was a notario named Ortega in Guaymas. 


These examples from the past are simply reasons why it is time to personally get yourself down to the notario's office or a person in the bank's trust department who is handling it and get some answers that you are apparently not getting from your realtor or bank. Try and get information as close to the source as possible. Whether that is the notario or the bank, who knows?


If everyone blames Mexico City, I don't know what, if anything, you can do about it. The bureaucracy in Mexico is legendary. World Class.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 2nd, 2019 12:34 am
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Bullshipper
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When I bought my place in Solimar, the previous 3 owners were not able to secure their trusts through a 20 year history and my notary had to work through that, plus cancel the original one from the 90's. I can attest that he was on the phone at least 3 times a week to the 3 different banks, and it took less than 90 days to get it done.

Last edited on Mon Dec 2nd, 2019 12:34 am by Bullshipper

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 Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2019 01:15 am
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barbdivers
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There was a certain attorney a few years back that took money and never produced a trust. Who was your attorney??

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 Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2019 12:17 pm
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Caroline
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I was a victim of "that local attorney" about four years ago. When I hired a real attorney it cost me $6,000 US to fix what they had done. My house was registered to a Mexican owner in Mexican records and was never in my name. There was forgery and other crimes involved. I finally got it straightened out and still have a bad feeling about the whole thing because a local real estate agent worked with me on both houses I bought here. My residence went through just fine the other was a nightmare and my children bought that one. That real estate agent is still in business in San Carlos and thankfully that "lying lawyer" is no longer here. They operated here a long time after the scandal broke but I just noticed their office seems to have "moved". I hope they are gone for good.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2019 12:42 pm
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Hook
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So, one post (their only post ever) by TheFoxFamily, lots of good advice and history, and no reply?

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 Posted: Tue Dec 24th, 2019 09:03 pm
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odwyerpw
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maybe they just aren't very good at due diligence and follow-up.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 28th, 2019 08:24 pm
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Tammi
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For sure 4 years is too long to be waiting for your trust...  Here is a breakdown of the steps of cancelling an existing trust and establishing a news one
  • Notarized Letter of Instruction and backup documentation to extinguish existing trust is delivered to the bank that currently holds the Bank Trust
    • Back up documentation can vary by situation, but generally: Current Passports of Buyers, Sellers (and if HSBC Passports for Substitute beneficiaries of new bank trust) KYC (know your client) formats for the bank, and current utility bills for the sellers (and possibly buyers depending on bank)
    • In this step your agent and/or notary should have documentation of when they received all the required documentation.
  • The "Cancelling" bank will approve the request (often times done in a central office like Mexico City) and will send a letter of approval to the Notary
  • At this moment the NEW BANK Trust will need a letter of instruction requesting a NEW bank trust to be established in the name of the NEW buyers plus back up documentation.  (this step can be started earlier but can't move forward without the previous cancellation "approval")
    • Same documentation as above
  • The NEW bank will then approve the new trust and send that Letter of approval to the same notary
  • The Notary will then create the "Project" that will essentially be the draft of new "Title"that will have the information of the cancellation and the creation of the new trust within. 
    • This "Draft"will be given to both of the banks and they will both need to provide their final approvals of this Draft
  • The Notary will then schedule the FINAL closing and signatures of all involved, buyers, sellers, bank trust officers, translators, powers of attorney (if needed) and the notary.  There will be about 5 or 6 copies that will need to be signed
    • Letters of no debt will be required from a couple of government offices from the buyer, seller and property
    • This is also the moment when the closing costs are paid
    • The bank trust fees will also need to be paid in full prior to the bank trust officer's signature
  • The Notary will then deliver the title to all the required government offices, including the catastral office, treasurer's office and public registry
This is a simple list of steps excluding some details, but this is the general idea.  The best thing to do is to ask where the transaction is "stuck".  It is true that there were some issues with HSBC, but they are moving now.  It may be necessary to start FRESH.  They use the First-In-First-Out rule so if you were one of the first in the bottleneck, you will be the very last to get out.  We have found that restarting the process worked to move the transaction to the top of the pile. 


The issue with so much time passing is that more often than not the documents expire, like the letters of instruction.  Some banks won't accept them if they are over 3  months old.  Then of course the Passport is an issue, it could have expired.  And guaranteed, the utility bills have expired. So at the end of the day, starting over is probably best.  And Yes, your realtor should be involved, at minimum with the follow up.  While clearly none of the steps above are controlled by the realtor, they should know the process and the current status. 


One other note, NEVER pay the Notary closing costs prior to closing.  I have had clients ask me to receive their closing costs early to have them here in Mexico to make the payment, but I don't recommend it, for many reasons.  The Notary fees can easily be paid to the notary with a USD Check at the time of closing.  


I know that is a lot of information, hopefully it has helped.  Our office will be happy to review your file to give a free assessment.  


Tammi Miller 
Vive Real Estate
622-132-9932


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 Posted: Mon Dec 30th, 2019 11:01 am
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Caroline
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Tammi, clearly you are a professional with a great understanding of the process. I can see so many ways it can get held up so if you add someone who has no idea what they are doing or they are crooks, it can be a big mess. Thankfully I straightened mine out by getting to the right people who were motivated to make it right. No regrets here.

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