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Bienvenidos!

 Moderated by: bartmanaz  
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maryt
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This is a posting from whatsupsancarlos.com but I think it has important information for San Carlos residents.
New Comisario for San Carlos Effective November 3, the new Comisario for San Carlos is Mr. Salvador Macias (pictured in the middle). He is bilingual and has been a resident in San Carlos for the past 6 years. Congratulations on your new role, Salvador. And "thank you" to Meliton Martinez (pictured on right), the previous Comisaria, for all his efforts.Over the coming weeks, we will interview the new Comisari to ask for his plans and vision for San Carlos, focusing specifically on areas such as lighting, potholes, safety, garbage, and public services in general. We're happy to see that landscaping and garbage collection is being focused on this week!  You can also check the Facebook page Comisaría San Carlos for updates and information.

Righton
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I hope someone can discuss Topes to slow down the speeders.

Hook
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What's Up is sure a great organization to have in town. I look forward to seeing their interview with the new comisario published.


Disclaimer: I have written for What's Up San Carlos in the past and may continue to, in the future.

maryt
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Check out the Facebook page if you have Facebook. It is in Spanish and English. You can probably share your interest in topes there Righton.

nice guy
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What exactly is the authority and responsibility of the Comisario? He apparently has no authority over the Police. Nor does he get any budget. What is he supposed to do with no authority, responsibility or budget?

maryt
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Well, I know he listens to a lot of complaints.

VisitorSanCarlos
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san carlos is good at that

Bullshipper
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4 pages easy

VisitorSanCarlos
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Hook wrote: What's Up is sure a great organization to have in town. I look forward to seeing their interview with the new comisario published.


Disclaimer: I have written for What's Up San Carlos in the past and may continue to, in the future.


why not have vince interview him

maryt
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That would be up to Vince. Whatsupsancarlos.com has nothing to do with Vince.

Hook
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Vince always has an axe to grind, just like you-know-who, VSC.


In fact, I think you-know-who quite well.

nice guy
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2nd time - What exactly is the authority and responsibility of the Comisario? He apparently has no authority over the Police. Nor does he get any budget. What is he supposed to do with no authority, responsibility or budget?

Does anybody know ??

maryt
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Nice guy, I don´t actually understand what all the Comisario is responsible, if anything, for. I guess we will have to let Salvador tell us how he views it and what are his plans.

Last edited on Thu Nov 9th, 2017 02:59 am by maryt

VisitorSanCarlos
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it was just a suggestion

frankie
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has anyone given any thought to the initials of Visitor San Carlos being the same as VIVA SAN CARLOS??????????

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Get em Frankie

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it looks like that may have been a poor choice by me has anyone noticed that we are in san carlos and that visitor and viva both start with the same letter i guess i could change it to resident of san carlos if that would make you all feel better
ill see if thats possible.

frankie
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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: it looks like that may have been a poor choice by me has anyone noticed that we are in san carlos and that visitor and viva both start with the same letter i guess i could change it to resident of san carlos if that would make you all feel better
ill see if thats possible.


my name is Frank J. Romero and yours?????????????????????????

VisitorSanCarlos
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None of your business unless we all play i don't play i looked to see if changing my username was possible it seems like its not bartmanz

frankie
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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: None of your business unless we all play i don't play 
wha wha wha!!! 

"pudden tane ask me again and i'll tell you the same"!!

your anonymity speaks volumes of your character and demeanor!! 

i thought you might enjoy the rhyme since it appears to be at your intellectual level!!!

Last edited on Thu Nov 9th, 2017 04:00 am by frankie

maryt
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VSC, I don´t care who you are but would you please start punctuating your sentences.  

Last edited on Thu Nov 9th, 2017 03:57 am by maryt

nice guy
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So - Comisarios are like tits on a bull ??

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Ruben aligned himself with rubes, Baca and Gadsby. At that point he was destined to fail. No one in our community trust those two people, so Ruben had that ball and chain around his neck. His ideas were great, but when you have noted cookie jar "hands" raising and collecting the funds, you be in trouble. Don't know anything about this new guy, but if he is of little influence and associates with inconsequential Guaymas officials, we will remain the bastard child of Guaymas.

goldin
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It looks like the new comisario is “past” ( assuming he’s only keeping one job) president of Canacintra in Guaymas. Check out this article with his photo and complete namehttp://c283170.r70.cf1.rackcdn.com/20130418_GENERAL_16.pdf

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Here’s a bit of info of what Canacintra is in both languages:[highlight= rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);]La Cámara Nacional de la Industria de Transformación es el organismo empresarial que representa los intereses legítimos del Sector Industrial de México, considerada por su cobertura, representatividad e infraestructura, como la más importante a nivel Latinoamérica, que le permite atender eficazmente las necesidades de sus industrias afiliadas.[highlight= rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);]
The National Chamber of the Transformation Industry is the business entity that represents the legitimate interests of the Industrial Sector of Mexico, considered for its coverage, representativeness and infrastructure, as the most important in Latin America, which allows it to effectively meet the needs of its industries Affiliates

goldin
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By the way the article I posted is dated April 2013. It was an old position for the new comisario.

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nice guy wrote: So - Comisarios are like tits on a bull ??
It seems so, at least as far as San Carlos goes. Ruben pretty much proved that. 

He tried, I give him credit for that. In fact, he made attempts to address some of our biggest problems;  water, sewage, speeding in town, roads. There are other issues, but those would have been good starts.


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En México bajo el nuevo Modelo Policial Estandarizado, el sistema organización jerárquica terciaria, los Comisarios son el último nivel escalafonario, encargados de la dirección y mando policial. El Comisario es equivalencia a General del Ejército o Almirante de la Armada.

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Comisarios are executives in charge of the municipal cops assigned to their area. They take their orders from mayors and state governor.Working on other problems are secondary politics.

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Well, that kind of explains the Policía office next to the Commisario’s office in SC.

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so is the comisario a sheriff of sorts? i thought that was the role of the local comandante. they exist in multiple population centers throughout the county (municipio).

*edited this reply based on additional post by users (e.g. received new information)





Last edited on Fri Nov 10th, 2017 11:05 pm by odwyerpw

Hook
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Bullshipper, that may be how it works in theory, but a previous comisario stated that the police force in San Carlos only listens to the Mayor in Guaymas; that he had no control over the cops assigned to San Carlos.


Or was it the commandante?

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Hook wrote: Bullshipper, that may be how it works in theory, but a previous comisario stated that the police force in San Carlos only listens to the Mayor in Guaymas; that he had no control over the cops assigned to San Carlos.


Or was it the commandante?

I am giving you what I found researching it on the internet in spanish specific to Mexico. As you know, things vary official to official in Mexico.

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friday i met the new comisario salvador macias.
i can report he knows all well of his job description and responsibilities! 
he appears to be a well educated man, who speaks english very well!
he had no disparaging words for the past comisarios, which speaks of his character!!
he appears to understand the avenues for funding and is well aware of our issues! 
he did make a cavet that his term could be over in a year!!
lets stand behind the efforts of comisario for the best for san carlos!!

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bravo

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For the Country Boys.....Consider a Steer in the field with a bunch of Heifers.

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Right on Frankie

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Frank, did he share a list of his efforts or priorities or what he would like to attempt?? Not trying to cause problems, just curious because I do not know him.

frankie
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i think all we be surprised at the many proactive issues he has been involved in!
my understanding is that he is organizing and will be prioritizing the issues of greatest concern! 

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 03:44 am by frankie

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I doesn't matter if that bull - now down to a steer - has 2, 4, or even a not unusual extra one to make 5 tits - the Comisario has ZERO control over the police, has ZERO budget, has ZERO authority. As was explained to me by a very well connected gentleman - he's appointed and he's only here to keep the expats calm while THEY are milked - paying their property taxes and then paying for their own roads, lights, etc. Wake up and smell the roses - if you want to live here without gritting your teeth, lay on your back and enjoy the diddling.

He also said the rule for self rule is a population of 10K - they you can be a "county". We're not there - so - let the music and the diddle go on.

frankie
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nice guy, you are obsessed with the tit's on a bull!!
the tit's on a bull are there before the organism distinguished it's X and Y chromosomes!! once distinguished one will produce milk to continue the cycle!
there are cows with milk out there (government funding) that haven't been tapped!
please allow our new comisario a chance at an attempt to seek these government funds. he knows the avenues to proceed!!

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He is all we have, why wouldn't we give him a shot.  Just hope the mover and shaker expats are kept at arms length. then he  might have a chance.

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We don't have a bull here - we have the mayor's pet steer. This mayor knows that expats can't vote, we can just piss and moan, so he appoints Comisario's who speak English so we can P&M in English and not get frustrated at our minimal Spanish. The bottom line is that our Comisarios are there to insulate the Mayor from getting the P&M's directly. At least Rubin had the balls to recognize the futility of his position. Learn to change what you can, and accept what you can't. Expats are a non-voting, cash cow for the for Gym government bull.

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 04:18 pm by nice guy

frankie
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nice guy wrote:cash cow for the for Gym government bull.

you are a misinformed quest in mexico!

it is my understanding pertinent information regarding your ASSUMPTIONS with be released forth coming!

 in the case you have not noticed the road coming into san carlos is being cleared of the weeds and grass in the medium and road sides!]

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 04:54 pm by frankie

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It's happened over and over again. You do know it's a federal road? Not Gym.

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Anything to clean up and beautify SC is a step in the right direction. No matter how small the improvements seem to be, compared to some of the massive projects, they are really appreciated. Thanks for being that liaison Frankie, keep it up.

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nice guy wrote: It's happened over and over again. You do know it's a federal road? Not Gym.
so are the beaches, and private endeavors are cleaning it!

what is important is the road is being cleaned!

not everything needs to be macro/managed!

micro/managed and private endeavors are fruitful and appreciated! 

JFK quote; ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!!

Last edited on Wed Nov 15th, 2017 06:01 pm by frankie

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Nice Guy, part of acceptance is letting it go. If you don´t think things can be changed, then accept it and quick whining here.

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I'm not whining. Stating the facts as were told to me by a prominent local. Some people seem to feel that this is FantasyLand, and a fairy God Mother with a magic wand in coming to office.

maryt
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All I read here is to give the new comisario a chance. I have seen no promises of any sort.

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rule 1 keep expectations as low as possible rule 2 dont make promises you can't keep it looks like hes following both rules

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Anybody know how many Comisario's were had since 1987? That's 30 years. Did anyone of them do anything?
What exactly is the track record we're trying to beat or exceed? Least stolen? Shortest time in office? Most potholes filled?

Common guys - let's get a measure of success for the office.

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I do know that when we first came here, they spoke only Spanish.

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nice guy wrote: I'm not whining. Stating the facts as were told to me by a prominent local. Some people seem to feel that this is FantasyLand, and a fairy God Mother with a magic wand in coming to office.

nice, guy you are whining as you have repeated yourself several times on this thread!!
also you are the only one with so much expectations, which appear are of a fantasy land or belief of a fairy godmother!

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nice, guy you are whining as you have repeated yourself several times on this thread!!
also you are the only one with so much expectations, which appear are of a fantasy land or belief of a fairy godmother!

Frankie, now you are starting to sound like Baca!!!!!

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longhornlucky wrote
Frankie, now you are starting to sound like Baca!!!!!

longhorn, i am sorry i have come off that way to you!

i was just acknowledging "nice guys" 7 repetitive posts! 

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 12:46 pm by frankie

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There have been a few good, and proactive Comisarios's. There was a time when the police were very active enforcing traffic violations and NOT accepting bribes. During this same period, Semana Santa was well policed and regulated. These efforts were not accepted by mostly the gringos, who did not like there driving being so scrutinized.

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The last two semana santa's were very well policed, traffic moved well, and the cleanups were fast and well done, imo.

Mexico, and SC in particular has never been a place like Canada or the States where the government does everything because the voters in Guaymas do not have the wealth or economy to pay for it. But we pay 20 a month for water, 200 a year for property tax, so in my mind, I get what I pay for and more, and SC today is a lot better place to vacation than it was in the old days and I have lived in the area since the 70's.
I don't like to come off as a love it or leave it, but there really are better or worse options all over the world where you can find great roads, or whatever else floats your boat, by just switching the place you vacation.

Changing the economic base and the politics in Mexico is not as easy as pointing your car in a different direction.

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Well said Bullshipper

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Well, I wish I only paid 20 a month for water, and 200 a year in taxes. Mine is much higher. I never get water, except at night (maybe) and I use to get great pressure from the street, and now I need a pump. So things are changing, but not for the better. San Carlos is a very special place, but it is changing a lot. When I first moved here  in 1980, I had a choice of flights to the states, and the price was cheap. I do not know what happened........Getting to the states now, isn't as quick and easy as it use to be.

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:03 pm by long time resident

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bullshipper it looks like we get what we pay for

Last edited on Thu Nov 16th, 2017 11:27 pm by

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gadsby, AKA, VSC, Do you have a bank trust here in San Carlos?

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long time resident wrote: Well, I wish I only paid 20 a month for water, and 200 a year in taxes. Mine is much higher. I never get water, except at night (maybe) and I use to get great pressure from the street, and now I need a pump. So things are changing, but not for the better. San Carlos is a very special place, but it is changing a lot. When I first moved here  in 1980, I had a choice of flights to the states, and the price was cheap. I do not know what happened........Getting to the states now, isn't as quick and easy as it use to be.
Well 1000 sq ft condos start around $650K in Ventura county, with dues starting at $400 per month, water, sewer and garbage is $160 and property taxes another is about $800 a month so come and get it north of the border and you won't ever have to deal another comissario again.

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yesterday, thursday i was invited to attend the new comisarios committee meeting.it was informative and enlightening!! there was a great turn out of interested and proactive residents!!

for some time many of us tax paying residents  have been under the illusion that we are the CASH COW for GUAYMAS! THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE RESPONSIBLE TAX PAYERS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!!!

here are the disclosed facts san carlos;  has a tax deficit for 5 years of over 83,455,258. pesos!!!
83,436,258. / 18.5 = 4,510,680. USD depending on the current exchange!!

so the reality is we  owe the treasury coffers in guaymas over 4.5 million USD!!!!

Guaymas will discount that debt to 64,149,794. pesos!!
64,149,794/18.5 = 3,467,556. USD

it is my understanding that San Carlos WILL benefit directly from the collection of those delinquent taxes, and the new comisario has opened a bank account for deposit!

IF WE WHERE ABLE TO COLLECT HALF OF THE DISCOUNTED DEFICIT AND THE MONEY USED FOR MUCH NEEDED INFRASTRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS, SAN CARLOS WOULD BE THE JEWEL WE ALL DESIRE!!

THANK YOU SALVADOR MACIAS!!

Attached Image (viewed 191 times):

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Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 12:44 pm by frankie

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This is an interesting view of the facts. Let’s make San Carlos responsible for collecting overdue taxes which Guaymas has not been able to do. And if you get that money, Guaymas will let you use the money for SC improvements. 
How much money is collected from SC tax payers? That’s the important point. How much of that is coming back to SC? It’s an incredible approach by Guaymas. If you want the SC tax money go get it from delinquent residents and we’ll let you keep it. That’s outrageous.
Can we ask Guaymas what’s the delinquency rate in Guaymas? I bet it’s a huge amount, which GUAYMAS is unable to collect. Thus, they gladly use the money that responsible SC residents pay for the benefit of Guaymas. 

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Frankie, what is the detailed plan to collect these delinquent taxes?

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golden, those are all valid points!! the same questions where asked at the meeting!
there are laws on the books for delinquent taxes!! they are obviously not be enforced!

here is how i commented at the meeting; in arizona and most if not all states delinquent taxes on properties can be purchased, the purchased delinquent taxes yield a 16% return to the investor! after a term period usually about 3 years if the investment with the 16% yield is not returned to the investor, the property owner forfeits the property "FEE SIMPLE" to the investor!

this would continue and allow the treasury coffers to meet their expenditures without the interruption of delinquencies!!! 

delinquent taxes should be penalized!!! not pardoned with a discount!
other methods mention was government seizure, and auctioning off seized properties!

i personally see these options as a win/win situation!!

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 02:18 pm by frankie

frankie
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frankie wrote: yesterday, thursday i was invited to attend the new comisarios committee meeting.it was informative and enlightening!! there was a great turn out of interested and proactive residents!!

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE RESPONSIBLE TAX PAYERS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!!!



P.S. there many large land tract owners who don't!!
 por quo; it is the difference of the responsible tax payers "CENTS" to their "DOLLARS"!!!!! 

what is important is we have a comisario who is making an earnest attempt to answer our lingering questions regarding infrastructure funding and who is working with our community for the solutions! his disclosure has given some answer to why and why not! 
it is a grand start!!

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 02:29 pm by frankie

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Well, on the one hand we had a comisario asking us to donate money over and above our taxes which apparently no one did so he quit. Now we have a comisaro who has gotten the mayor to agree that delinquent San Carlos taxes collected by the comisario can be used in San Carlos. So continue to wail at a system you, as a non-citizen, have no power to change or give the new comisario a chance. No one is asking me to pay a dime more that what I owe right now and we might actually see some improvements. Why would I oppose that?

frankie
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maryt wrote: Well, on the one hand we had a comisario asking us to donate money over and above our taxes which apparently no one did so he quit. 
mary, that is not why ruben quit!
there is no utopia!! 
we not should see this as miracle pill to cure our ill's .
it is an earnest and honest attempt of our new comisario to get answers to the "why's" and "why not"!! his attempt to join our community with answers and with our input as residents forming committees for resolution is admirable! 
the independent groups who are doing needed and much appreciated work here in san carlos will always need our charitable contributions!  

frankie
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just in, the comisario has just informed me that;

1) the full balance of the 2017 taxes be accrued to the san carlos account!
2) there is a 8,000,000. peso existing balance that will also be transferred to the san carlos account! 

this is a start to new new beginning!
bravo comisario salvador macias!!

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 03:27 pm by frankie

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Frankie, believe me I am not looking at Salvador through rose-colored glasses and I am sure my statement about Ruben may be overly simplistic but I do think it has some truth to it also. I agree there is no utopia. However if I haven´t been clear, let me state that I think Savador is trying something very interesting and I am willing to give him a chance. Of course we should all continue to support the charitable organizations of our choice down here (did I say differently?). But Salvador is not asking for handouts in addition to our tax dollars and I find that refreshing. He is asking for input and cooperation. Also refreshing.

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Is there a process in place to determine which properties owe taxes and what the discounted payment per property is?

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When you say owners of large tracts of land aren't paying their taxes, Is it just a few high tax properties along the beaches? Is it properties held by the holding companies of established families like the Llanos and Caballeros? Is it other investor groups? Is it large commercial properties?

This San Carlos Account that has been opened, What is deposited into it? Money returned to SanCarlos from Guaymas after they have received payment on delinquent taxes? Or is the monies from Taxes collected directly from the delinquent property owners?

Who controls this San Carlos Account for receiving delinquent tax monies? Who audits it? Has the Comisario's office become responsible for collecting taxes in the comisaria of San Carlos?


Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 04:17 pm by odwyerpw

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there will always be need for private concern groups, over and above sanctioned government funding!
here is how we can all relate to it in a positive way, in the USA there is;
*adopt a hiway, individuals or groups adopt a section of hiway to maintain it's cleanliness!
* neighborhood watch,  subdivisions/neighbors form vigilant groups to supplement the law enforcement.
* ASPCA
ect; ect;

frankie
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posts # 73 & 74
73, there is a process and all are offered a discount in a set time period.
74, good question and will be determined!

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Money is money, however it is collected. The question is what is the plan to collect these taxes? Obviously the delinquency is many years old, here and in Guaymas. Knocking on doors will not be fruitful. The feasibility of the plan is key. 
Also the negotiated agreement, should be in writing to make sure that the moneys are available into the future. I would like to hear about those details.

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Bullshipper, California is one of the most expensive places to live. Great example. I do own property in the states, so I am well aware of what it costs. Yes, my taxes in the states are higher, but I do get a lot for them. My HOA fees in the states are not 400, a lot less,and I do own the home. My water bill runs about $45 a month, and I always have water. My water bill in San Carlos runs about $50 a month (it is water companies guesstimate) and I have no water for days on end. I enjoy both places. Just making the statement that you can not compare what you pay, to what others might be paying. All depends on what you have and where you are. I have paid for a lot of infrastructure in Mexico, putting in the electric and water from some distance, only to have all the neighbors hook up for free. I am not complaining. Just stating a fact.

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 i am as cynical as any!! i prefer to live my life with my glass half full not half empty!
i only met the new comisario last week! i am encourage in what i see!
he was only appointed a short time ago! we need to allow him to proceed in a positive way!
accounting and accountability of incoming tax revenues should be addressed! 

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post #74 ron, 
i don't have the particulars to your valid questions! this is in in it's infancy!
they should be forth coming as they develop!

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Frank
Clarify for me and others-is the 83.5M in delinquent taxes for Guaymas in its totality, or is that just for San Carlos? Can't read the fine print on the chart.
Thanx
Bart

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bart, the 83.5m pesos is what some san carlos property owners owe guaymas for the last 5 years!

P.S. i have no doubt that guaymas proper and the surrounding communities of the municipality of guaymas have their individual tax deficits!
the 83.5m pesos addresses san carlos!

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 05:43 pm by frankie

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So SC properties owe US$4.5 mil in 5 years of back taxes. If you take US$250 as average annual taxes, you get 18,000 properties in 5 years arrears. How many  properties are in SC?

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 06:15 pm by nice guy

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nice guy, your math is incorrect, there is to much variation for your average!!

it was disclosed at the meeting that san carlos has an approximate population of 5,000.


P.S. see my post #68

Last edited on Fri Nov 17th, 2017 06:24 pm by frankie

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i am not sure how the properties are taxed here!
i know in arizona there is a variety of property taxes; residential, vacant land, commercial, agricultural, ect.
there are variations of those mentioned; for instance a residence is taxed different if it is a primary residence than if it is a rental!
developers here should have a tax consideration for their long term investment!
i owned a ranch in AZ. that i had to run a certain amount of cattle to maintain my agricultural tax status or forfeit that status to a higher commercial/residential rate! !
complicated!!!

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That is fabulous news, Frankie!  I was also at the meeting and it was amazing.  If you wanted any proof, Frankie just mentioned it. 

Ron & Karen
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How about posting a list (or making it available) of all San Carlos properties behind in their taxes? This should be public information and it would take about 5 key strokes. I'd like to know who is not paying - where are the deadbeats?

nice guy
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I thought Gym bankrupt and bank accts seized. So they owe 8 mil pesos - but have no money to pay?

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Bart,

To clarify the chart. There are three columns of numbers specific to certain geographic areas in San Carlos. Not all areas in San Carlos are presented.

The first column shows amounts owed in property taxes that are more than 5 years delinquent. This amounts to 9,126,179 pesos

The second column shows delinquent amounts owed from these same areas that are between 1 and 5 years past due. This includes penalties and interest. The total amount shown is 83,455,258

The third column shows these same past due amounts without penalties and interest. Past due from 1 to 5 years. 64,149,794 pesos.

Any way you look at it, that's a lot of money that hasn't been paid for taxes.

These amounts are related to all kinds of property. Some vacant lots, some for houses that are currently being lived in, some for developments that are being developed. And the assessed value of these properties is varied.

What is needed is a community focus to figure out how to get these amount current and more thoughts on how to prevent this type of thing from getting out of hand in years to come. Keep in mind, if this problem was as easy to fix as some would think, it would have been solved already.

North Of The Border solutions don't always work the same in Mexico.

frankie
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there are 4 columns.

column 1 colonia, 

column 2 REZAGO with totals

column 3 total GENERAL

column 4 total PROMOCION

83,455,258.38 total with penalties

64,149,794.53 discount promotion 

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 04:23 am by frankie

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Siince the chart is to small to read could someone put up the figure for each area or is there a way to enlarge the chart.?

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I would venture to say, that the more gringo the sector, the more taxes paid. I think us gringo visitors are more inclined to pay taxes, due to what we might consider as adverse consequences to not paying. Where is Villahermosa on that chart?

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I would like to see it as well. These two (2) gringos have paid our taxes each and every year of property ownership!! 

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Thanx for the explanation.
Bart

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i don't believe it would  be productive to instigate a US versus THEM debate!
 it is my understanding that attempts will be made to form liaisons for each "colonia" subdivision/sector, these representatives will make attempts to encourage tax payments!
this would be a more passionate approach, considering the drastic legal approach of seizure!!! which could cause personal disruption and not accomplish the goal of filling the treasuries coffers!
it is extremely delicate and complicated issue and any productive suggestions are welcome!!!

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Frankie, who gets invited to these meetings? And how do you participate? I haven’t seen anything ”official” posted or a community outreach...

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all are welcome to join on the "FACEBOOK" page "Comisaria San Carlos". also "Comisaria municipal San Carlos".
news and general information will be published daily.

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Frankie, when referring to gringo visitors, it was a possible statistical observation, predicated on our desire to remain in good stead with our "trust contracts" and our rendering unto Ceasar. Nothing to do with US vs THEM.

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For those like me who do not own property in Mexico, can someone explain the process for billing and collecting property taxes? If you have a trust, are the taxes paid thru the trust holder or direct to the taxing authority?

Thanx
Bart

frankie
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i have a personal trust and properties owned by my empressa. there are no notices sent out for taxes. they are expected to be paid after the first of january . those who pay in a allotted time period are given a discount, for current and delinquent taxes!
there is a tax collecting office in the same plaza as where you pay your water bill, here in san carlos.
p.s. it is best to bring your tax code number or a previously paid receipt for greater efficiency!

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 03:35 pm by frankie

Hook
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Based on my experiences with Mexican record keeping in the past, I see a real potential for persons who HAVE paid their taxes ending up in the non-payment group. What recourse do they have if they dont have their own personal record keeping? I do (well, my whiz of a wife) have good record keeping. But some wont.


Others will CLAIM they paid Guaymas, and Guaymas might have no proof either way.


There will be some who honestly paid a "service agent" in town to handle this (much like fideicomisos), but the honesty has been known to stop at the front door of some of these agents'.


I remember hearing that many city records were destroyed in the rains and floods accompanying Jimena in 2009. Records that were clearly not computerized. I can recall trying to get some land title information from Guaymas and our agent stated (that the Guaymas officials stated) that many were destroyed and there was nothing to provide us.


You can see how all this delinquency could occur. Mexico has laws but no real enforcement in so many areas. Taxes, traffic violations, marine conservation, building codes and zoning, public safety, judicial functions, etc. And when enforcement is attempted, an under-the-table payoff (for much less) to the right person is the Mexican pastime.


Without any "meat" in the enforcement, why would anyone coming from a culture of avoidance, pay up? Guilt? I doubt it.


I have no complaint about going after scofflaws and tax cheats. What taxpaying resident would complain? Go for it.


I just see a POTENTIAL for abuse, and hope there is a system of redress for this THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE IMMERSING ONESELF IN THE DYSFUNCTIONAL COURT SYSTEM.

AlS
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You can use the zoom feature on your browser if the print is too small.

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hook, your post sums up the obvious situation!
i keep all my receipts, scan them and have a copy in my computer! the stamped originals will only be accepted for any dispute! 
the current payments are computerized, at least they have been the last few years i have paid!

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 04:11 pm by frankie

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When I sold a property that was part of Groupo Cabellero, it took me many months to get their office to pay the back taxes before we could initiate a bank trust. Turns out that most of the big amounts of taxes owed, are similar situations. Mexicans that owned large parcels and have never paid any taxes. Cabelleros went back to the beginning of time, and they were holding out for more discounts, on the amount owed.

390pony
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It's easiest to pay online.

AlS
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This problem of back property taxes has many causes. The new Comisario asked a group of homeowner association leaders and real estate professionals for ideas on Thursday. There were some good ideas presented.

The Comisario already acted on some ideas of his own resulting in a balance in a special account in treasury for our community's use. The Comisario was very clear in Thursday's meeting that the community is NOT the tax collector. His stated preference is to NOT publish the past due accounts.

The opportunity for our community has been shown with some numbers. There are likely some errors in the data. However, not all the parts of San Carlos were included in the data. The data presented shows the magnitude of the opportunity.

How do we change this? Based on past successes, it generally follows a pattern:
- Make it REAL easy to do the "right" thing
- Educate and publish
- Make it painful to do the "wrong" thing

Keep the ideas coming.

Last edited on Sat Nov 18th, 2017 05:50 pm by AlS

lasninas
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This is huge!  So, are you saying that SC now will be receiving the 8,000,000.00 peso balance , or will be receiving it, to be used for the  operational budget for San Carlos?  If so, this is massive!!!

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als , thank you for your post #106. 
very good suggestions!!!

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why havent we heard directly from the commisario he is a member of this forum

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VSC, why haven't we heard if you have a property in trust in San Carlos?

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irrelevant and noyb

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Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 12:51 am by maryt

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VSC, "irrelevant and noyb" I know you are irrelevant, and it is probably none of my business, but if you have no skin in the tax game here, we don't care what you think!!

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johnmoore you must have property here what is your address ill stop by and we can discuss taxes renters and property owners both pay owners directly and renters indirectly

johnmoore
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I am a little picky who comes to my house, but I will come to yours.

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VSC, not to worry, I know where F Street is...lol

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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: why havent we heard directly from the commisario he is a member of this forum
VSC, you are such a drama QUEEN!! if you want your answer go down to the comisario's office and ask it!!

responses to your posts in various threads, see a tiring of your constant pathological antagonistic banter! 

Last edited on Sun Nov 19th, 2017 04:22 am by frankie

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Maybe they should try sending out tax notices? Maybe all these people don't realize they owe taxes !!

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At both houses that I rented over the last 7 years in San Carlos, the tax notice was delivered to the house and I passed it along to the owner for payment.

390pony
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I've never received a notice. I just go online and pay.

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Nice Guy: THAT is a good idea to send out tax notices. Make it easy to do the "right" thing.

Paper at door? Email? Text message? WhatsApp?

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Yes, but delivering notices may be beyond Guaymas capabilities. Although, when you have so high a delinquency level, it makes sense to invest for a potentially better return.

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Yes, very good idea to deliver the tax notices.  Mine is not delivered.  

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Maybe wrap it around a brick and toss thru a front window, how about along with a pix of a horse's head ??

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Something is wrong I know for a fact that Guaymas sends out someone with the notices. I was at one of my Mexican friends house when they came to see him. He was was 2 years late and when down the next week and paid.

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Maybe they only bill the ones that are delinquent, knowing that the ones who pay will.

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That wasn’t the case with the owners of the two homes I rented.  Both those owners paid every year, and the notices were hand delivered, not mailed.  I was there and had to sign for it.

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Never have received a notice in 25 years......just go down and pay each year.

happy camper
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Same here in over 20 years never received anything , I just pay it on time every year .

Last edited on Tue Nov 21st, 2017 06:15 am by happy camper

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Just got back to town, saw the blog, new Comisario?? Who is he (really), what is his background, and what, specifically is his agenda? No answers, no comisario..lol

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Here’s a link to his info on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvador-macias-rangel-2355512
It looks like he’s a chemical engineer and is or used to be president of an energy company in Texas.

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It is my understanding that the Mayor of Guaymas puts into place the Comisario of SC. Is there ever the mayor saying to the candidate, "here's the problems in SC, what will you do about them if you are given the position of comisario"? We all know the problems, what is the comisarios solution so them?

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Where is the property tax paid?

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I do not understand why they would be hesitant to provide a list of delinquent property owners. My guess is that the majority of pesos are owned by big properties like Playa Blanca, Marinaterra etc. Very hard to believe that individual homes owned by gringos are the main offenders. Only one way to find out... publish a list.

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Not sure it is the role of the government to shame people into paying by publishing their names. I’m sure the list is long... However there’s loopholes in the taxing system that allows the locals not to pay their due. Like all the unfinished home construction, where there’s no tax liability until the project is completed. Yes, sometimes is lack of funds, but I remember visiting Mexico City and seeing all these unpainted block homes on a hill. The guide explained that the painting of the homes would be the last expense before the home is finished and at which time the improvement taxes would accrue. Thus, no painting, no tax...

bombero
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Maybe I should start a new thread about the "New Comisario"??

nice guy
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My guess is that lots of Mexicans with weekend play houses here are major non-payers, and that's why a list would never be published.

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Bomber, It is my understanding that the new Comisario believes that the collecting of "delinquent taxes", would do much to aid in the repair of infrastructure projects. So that is how the tread has morphed to that conversation.

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Bombero, no need to start a new thread, but you may want to start reading from the beginning of the thread. What you want to know is there...

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Regarding being billed for property taxes......if one is billed and is not delinquent I would think they would want you to pay what is on the bill with NO discount. Offices/businesses are not to good at subtracting monies not owed and if you live in Mexico long enough you'll figure this out and just take it in stride. 

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140 posts and no word from the commissario

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VSC, if you are not paying property tax here in SC, please go to the "therapist" thread.

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ROTFLMAO!

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VSC, you impotent tyrant, just go down to the comisario!!!!!!!!!
it won't be as much fun for you as antagonizing the readers of this board, but if your questions are sincere, they'll be answered!! 

frankie
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pony, i had to look that one up.
 i am doing just that!!!!! good one!!

390pony
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:)

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so far all i have done is what bartmanaz has asked. so why the big upset i have not attacked anyone and name calling seems to be your thing not mine

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Welcome to our general forum on San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico. Post your general questions and answers about San Carlos here.

frankie
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i believe i am correct saying VSC and GG are one and the same.

you continue to antagonize, with posts of viewer count, post count, INNUENDO, ect: WHY??

it is obvious what you are trying to accomplish!

if no one is answering your question regarding why the comisario hasn't posted, make it YOUR due diligence to go down to the comisaria and ask the comisario!



 

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 03:52 am by frankie

frankie
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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: why havent we heard directly from the commisario he is a member of this forum

disclose you assumption, put up or shut up!!!!!!!

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is this what you are looking for xicotencatl is a member of this board and the new commisario Salvador Macias

frankie
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the positive cohesion of a community is predicated through responsible leadership and responsible support of the residents of the community!

the current comisario is attempting to bind the positive residents in efforts to address our common issues. committees are being formed and the results will in time be properly addressed!

this is a positive and admirable effort we should all support for the betterment of San Carlos!

when an individual chooses to disrupt the stability of the community and of it's leadership.  in the infancy of it's growth for personal gain or gratification, through public instruments. that individual intentions should be questioned and castigated!

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 03:01 pm by frankie

johnmoore
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Frankie, I think castrated is little rough, maybe reprimanded??

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hahahaha!! castigated and castrated are 2 different words with 2 different meanings!!!!
castigate does mean to reprimand!! 

but your innuendo is hilarious, and really funny considering that individual has nothing to castrate!!!!!!

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 03:43 pm by frankie

frankie
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Salvador Macias is the comisario/elect of San Carlos! his current official title is "Enchargado del Despacho" until he is formally sworn in as comisario of San Carlos!

please feel free to visit these sites on "Facebook" for any verification, clarification or questions!

Comisaria San Carlos
Comisaria Municipal San Carlos

this is the new comisario logo!!

Attached Image (viewed 103 times):

logo.jpg

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 06:19 pm by frankie

goldin
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Frankie there’s two Facebook pages for the Comisaria, none have anything like an announcement on the new comisario.

frankie
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feel free to ask questions on the sites!!
there is no need for skepticism, patience may be needed to allow them to upload pertainete information! 
they are anxious and waiting for input!!

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 06:28 pm by frankie

goldin
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Frankie, do you have a job with the Comisaria or are you friends?

johnmoore
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Regarding post #154, I never knew there was this limbo period, how interesting. When does it become official? Does he have full powers in this limbo period? Will we soon know more of his platform for a resurgent San Carlos. Would Bart allow this site to have it's own open thread dedicated to an exchange of thought between the Comisario and residents....?

frankie
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goldin, no!!! i am also not an ass kisser!
my neighbor and friend jeus susarrey, and my friend of 16 years ruben pinto where the past comisarios and i supported them both in a positive way for the betterment of san carlos!
i have been appointed to a comasaria committee! for the betterment of our community!

goldin
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Great for you! Is that how you got access to the new logo?

frankie
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goldin, thank you and yes!

john, the comisaria has two sites on facebook! this a more politically correct approach as not to favor any particular forum!

the swearing is in as comisario is a matter of protocol!

salvador appears to be taking action!
* he held a meeting of concerned residents the first week of his appointment.
* offered statics regarding taxes
* i see the law enforcement stopping speeders with radar
* a committee was at the fountain today, seeking it's functioning problems
* a new logo
* new facebook sites
* daily contributions on our whatsapp chat line
* meetings with his different committees 

Last edited on Wed Nov 22nd, 2017 07:11 pm by frankie

maryt
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Tell us more about the WhatsApp chat, please. Can anyone on WhatsApp join this?

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mary, to my knowledge it is for active comisaria committee members! we are asked to spread the word as i have been trying to do!

johnmoore
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Frankie, would you mind posting a list of the Committee members?

VisitorSanCarlos
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forward motion at last gracias salvador

nice guy
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"Does he have full powers in this limbo period?"

He doesn't ever have any power at all - before , during or after.

Unless somebody gives him something personal, his office has nothing.

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frankie wrote:
salvador appears to be taking action!
* he held a meeting of concerned residents the first week of his appointment.
* offered statics regarding taxes
* i see the law enforcement stopping speeders with radar
* a committee was at the fountain today, seeking it's functioning problems
* a new logo
* new facebook sites
* daily contributions on our whatsapp chat line
* meetings with his different committees 

niceguy, look around, there is all of the above, new speed limit signs!
more, much more coming!

johnmoore
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NGuy, in my years here we have had strong Comisario's with Guaymas backing, and in other instances have had benign Comisario's without Guaymas backing, and in some cases benign even with Guaymas backing. They did not last long. Whoever is selected to the post must have some juice coming in, or nothing gets done. Let's support our new man here, until it becomes obviously futile.

VisitorSanCarlos
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i agree without backup by the residents nothing will happen again
history has shown us that if it has shown nothing else

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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: i agree without backup by the residents nothing will happen again
history has shown us that if it has shown nothing else

george, doesn't viva keep you busy enough? why don't you stay on your own forum?

Last edited on Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 04:12 am by frankie

frankie
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frankie wrote:
salvador appears to be taking action!
* he held a meeting of concerned residents the first week of his appointment.
* offered statics regarding taxes
* i see the law enforcement stopping speeders with radar
* a committee was at the fountain today, seeking it's functioning problems
* a new logo
* new facebook sites
* daily contributions on our whatsapp chat line
* meetings with his different committees 

new speed signs are up!!

many committees are being formed by responsible residents!

frankie
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all will see the progress in the weeks to come!

Last edited on Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 04:19 am by frankie

Righton
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I still think topes in critical areas would solve many problems.

goldin
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Not necessarily, if they control speeders with the new signs by giving tickets...

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maybe some toppes
they are stopping speeders, i have witnessed them using a radar.
all monies from fines will be deposited in san carlos's bank account!

nice guy
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What about the "fines" that go directly into cop's pockets?  So, we've found a solution to bribery and corruption?

frankie
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nice guy, i am as cynical as you, time will tell!!
there is a new comandante who is of high standards!

goldin
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Maybe the way to stop mordida is to ask for a receipt. If the Comisario is serious about getting that money for SC maybe he can put a system in place with the police carrying a booklet of receipts to hand out to speeders, etc. Then there’ll be accountability for what’s collected.

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Frankie, are you absolutely sure that money from fines goes into a San Carlos banking account?

Not so Nice Guy, The Comisario has made it clear on his Facebook page that he is not going to tolerate corruption. He has asked people to report to him any attempts to collect mordidas. Will it work? I don´t know but I applaud him for trying and urge people to not offer bribes.

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It makes no difference to me where the Traffic Infraction Money goes (it is small potatoes considering the Major things needed in SC).....


Point is....Will this slow down speeders?


All I need is;
#1 is dependable water supply.



#2 Sewer leaks fixed



#3 Arthritis to strike the hands of most of the Overly Opinionated posters who have nothing better to do than Gripe.

Last edited on Thu Nov 23rd, 2017 08:19 pm by Jimmy

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Jimmy, (my disaster event hero), There are a lot of good meds for arthritis, hope you find them.

nice guy
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I am not trying to be cynical, pessimistic, or a downer. But, I've lived long enough to not be an early adopter, especially here. Mexicans have had 500 years of these shenanigans in their culture, and they've adapted.

happy camper
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Its the people who are offering bribes also. Just heard from an American who asked how much do i pay you here on the spot , after he was told the fine is 2000 pesos for speeding.
Well , he got down to pay 250 right there.
So who is to blame here ?? Think about it ..

happy camper
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Righton wrote: I still think topes in critical areas would solve many problems.
I agree on the topes, since nobody can be  bribed for those ..

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Frankie, what is the cost of a "speeding" ticket? Is there a sliding upward scale of speed involved? Where do you pay?

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goldin wrote: Maybe the way to stop mordida is to ask for a receipt. If the Comisario is serious about getting that money for SC maybe he can put a system in place with the police carrying a booklet of receipts to hand out to speeders, etc. Then there’ll be accountability for what’s collected.

Good luck

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johnmoore wrote: Frankie, what is the cost of a "speeding" ticket? Is there a sliding upward scale of speed involved? Where do you pay?

If you exceed the limit by 20 km/hr the official fine in Mexico 50-60 times the local daily minimum wage. This is about 3500 pesos for the 1st offense and 4600 for the second. Your license or vehicle will usually be confiscated until you pay at the police station and there may be additional charges for towing and police yard storage, where often times the vehicles can be vandalized. Sometimes the magistrate is out of town or "away", so there are additional costs to stay in hotels until you get it resolved.
Or you pay the mordida if the officer is willing, for whatever you can negotiate, but my best advice is to be nice, go with the flow, and cross your fingers.

Last edited on Sat Nov 25th, 2017 05:42 am by Bullshipper

happy camper
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If you go with the flow you are always too fast most of the time . Not a good advice BullS...
I have no idea where you got your numbers from , but those people i was talking above where told its 2000 pesos and there where going more then 20km above the limit .
So what are really the real rates is the question here ????

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My Spanish teacher got a fine and while I don´t know the full amount I do know that she got a significant discount for going and paying immediately at the police station.

happy camper
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That sounds encouraging maryt..

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The previous commissario was not able to topes in a timely manner. Look at this or perhaps similar ones. Maybe a Mexican source is available http://www.seton.ca/traffic-and-parking-controls/parking-lot/speed-bumps-humps-and-curbs/speed-bumps-and-humps/speed-bumps-with-channels-am0034.html

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Sorry about the bad presentation on the post. Could not insert the link properly although I just wanted to insert the photo and save everyone the trouble of going to the link.

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happy camper wrote: If you go with the flow you are always too fast most of the time . Not a good advice BullS...
I have no idea where you got your numbers from , but those people i was talking above where told its 2000 pesos and there where going more then 20km above the limit .
So what are really the real rates is the question here ????

I looked it up. in spanish and translated the fine. And going with the flow was meant to say that you should be courteous at all times to a policeman.

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http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/articulo/nacion/sociedad/2017/07/29/enterate-cuanto-cuesta-exceder-los-limites-de-velocidad-en-las

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Thank you for the link and yes it says so on paper . I got it with your:P explanation going with the flow :D Bulls....

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I was driving home from dinner tonight at La Trattoria, around 9:45 p.m. and I had stopped at the stop sign at Hambone's.   A car came speeding through the stop sign in the opposite direction.  A police car was positioned on the ranchitos road and hit the flashing lights and took off after the speeding car.  It was great to see, and I very much appreciate the police presence in San Carlos.  

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And for all those who will be squealing that only Americans are targeted, we saw a Sonoran plated car stopped by police last night.

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Excluding Hermosillo along the bypass route, where foreign plated vehicles have often been fair game for mordida, 95% of the cars I see pulled over are Mexicans. It pretty much jives with the incidence of speeding I see, too. Sonorans are crazy-fast drivers, IMO. Especially men in fancy Lobos.

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Can you post links to the facebook sites?  

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On Facebook, this is not a link, one must have a Facebook account. If you do, the Comisario can be found at "Comisaria San Carlos".

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There are two such links and it can be confusing...

If you go to https://www.facebook.com/ComisariaSanCarlos, you will find content

If you go to https://www.facebook.com/comisaria.sancarlos.1 , you will find content.

They share some common content.... and then sometimes they don't. The information is ordered differently too (for example one shows old photos of Efraim at the Mirador as some of the first items).

ComisariaSanCarlos is more intuitive to type, but the comisaria.sancarlos.1 has a content layout that is more intuitive. Maybe they could get with the parties that own both... merge the best stuff under one.. and then eliminate the other?   

Last edited on Tue Nov 28th, 2017 03:19 am by odwyerpw

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There's lots of expats with Son plates now - so ...

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one of the facebook links is the old one and has been compromised at times, the other is the current!

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Frankie, which site is the current one, representing the current Comisario?

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i am not exactly sure. i do not have a facebook account. i get in enough trouble here!!!

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the 2nd one is probably the best! it has a limit of 5,000 friends. the fan page has grown from 300 guests to almost 800 in 2 weeks!

Last edited on Tue Nov 28th, 2017 05:26 pm by frankie

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if you are using facebook as your primary means to share info... well then definitely explore killing the comprimised one....no?

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This is the correct Facebook link: 
https://www.facebook.com/comisaria.sancarlos.1

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I have seen the FB comments, I fail to see how most are helpful. When did mankind lose it's ability to give one a chance before condemnation? Things will become clear soon, shouldn't we all try patience and see what happens?

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john, those are words of wisdom!! the same ole nay Sayers will always want their point of view heard!
i see lots of progress all around town!

Last edited on Thu Nov 30th, 2017 04:36 pm by frankie

johnmoore
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Frankie, I think it would be helpful and really informative if you could keep the community apprised of the goings on with the resident committee. I do not know how active it is, and how often they meet, but anything would be appreciated. Thanks for all your efforts.

AlS
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Tuesday afternoon was the first combined meeting of the Comisario's Residents Committees. Salvador Macías presented a high level view of how the city services and the Comisaría of San Carlos interact. Plus what Salvador is attempting to accomplish in the short term.

Mike Barry is getting the Resident Committees started and communicating. From the pictures on the FaceBook page you can see that Mike was a part of the presentation also.

The Residents Committees were each asked to deliver 3 goals with a short to medium time frame.

I can only talk about the Water and Sewer Committee that Dolores Monterrubio and I co-chair. We delivered the following 3:
- A public water presentation which is scheduled for December 7 at 7pm at Club Deportivo
- A FaceBook page or group to share information publicly
- External evidence to confirm or refute the source of Guaymas Norte water

Our team is busy gathering information, organizing information, and creating the presentation. Our first rehearsal is planned for Sunday afternoon.

After the presentation we will be working with any to-dos that arise from the audience. Then we will focus on what we want to accomplish on FaceBook.

MARIGOT
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Mana: 
Who will your audience be?  Since you didn’t say where or what time your Sunday rehearsal will be?

AlS
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Rehearsal is team members only.

johnmoore
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AIS, thanks for that.

RichD
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What are the other committees?

frankie
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the following committees "resident counsels" which will be co/chaired by nationals and foreign residents formed by our new comisario Savador Macias are; 

* Audit counsel

* Donation counsel
* Public Service counsel
* Tourism counsel

* Neighborhood Organization counsel
* Urban Image counsel

* Water Sewer counsel

* Culture and Events counsel

the co/chairs for these counsels will be announced on or before wednesday of next week!


Last edited on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 01:32 am by frankie

odwyerpw
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Frankie,
Thanks for the updates.
Peter

goldin
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Frankie, you forgot the Public Services committee.

frankie
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goldin, it is number 3 on the list.

goldin
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My bad... Sorry. Thanks.

Righton
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I sure hope he consider Topes as if the police are writing tickets it has not slow any drivers down.

frankie
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there is a nice new tope in front of marina tierra and 2 new stop signs!!
i have slowed down myself as i have witnessed drivers pulled over everyday!!

frankie
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read my post #64



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