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johnmoore
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Ruben, would you please make the same plea here on the San Carlos Forum, as you are making on Viva.  I think you might find some help. 

johnmoore
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Asked a friend to copy and email Rubens post on Viva. It is as follows:

So far, my budget continues at 00.00 pesos
.
Last monday i had a meeting with guaymas major regarding the construction and equipment in exchange for city taxes.
He rejected everything with the excuse that if he do any good work for S.C., the poor sectors of guaymas will riot.

So we are alone, will continue alone.

Solutions, at your consideration.

Start a S.C. relieff committe to receive money from donation and events to fund it.

First project can be the pavement of calle H from circle K all the way to loma del mar trailer park. After we complete that project, we can continue to pave the road from the ranchitos schools, or anything we decide to fix.

First, we need a couple of residents to handle the money and control the expenses.

Why two??? less problems, and is more easy to get an agreement.

We can ask for proposals to do the paving as a sealed bid closed envelope to be opened in front of anybody who wants to be involved.

The bidding winner must supply a bond before receiving any down payment.etc. etc.etc.

Specification of the job to be done, like length, width, thickness will be done from somebody that knows what is required.
Once we start with #1, i will ask the merchants to donate for the project...because we all want to fix SAN CARLOS.......

frankie
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ruben is my good friend!! i am very familiar with his speech, writing and mannerism!! 
 i am also familiar with GG's pen!! this stinks of GG, probably because he wrote it!
i ask any of you who know ruben well if this sounds like he wrote it?

Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 06:49 am by frankie

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If the mayor said that, the governor should be informed. in.

johnmoore
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Frankie, Me thinks you could be correct on this one. Does sound a bit like the gadfly.

frankie
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First project can be the pavement of calle H from circle K all the way to loma del mar trailer park. After we complete that project, we can continue to pave the road from the ranchitos schools, or anything we decide to fix.



this is a special interest comment!! "GG"

Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 03:29 pm by frankie

Richard Baca
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Comisario Ruben Pinto posted the information and the plea on the Viva Board. JohnMoore then asked that it be cut and pasted here. Cut and pasted so that it would be transcribed verbatim, with no editorial comment. Comisario Pinto is the one that suggested Calle H as one of the projects. He is open to suggestion and anyone can go see him be it at Charly's Rock or the Comisaría.

johnmoore
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Richard, In post #1 I asked Ruben to make his plea here. He has yet to do that. His/gg's note was posted, but Ruben has yet to put his personal touch to it. As long as Ruben only posts on Viva, you know where the steering comes from. Why is it always the LDM freaking road? Yeah that was a huge success at the hands of gg last time. Who wants to get involved in that sham again?

long time resident
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If this was truly the response from Guaymas Mayor, then it should be brought to the attention of the Governor of Sonora, and other public offices that are involved in the distribution of tax dollars. If the budget is .00, then there is a serious lack of legality in all of this. If Ruben accepts this from the mayor of Guaymas, then I am shocked. Someone needs to stand up for San Carlos, in the position of Comisario. Otherwise, why bother having one? How would the people of Guaymas even know where the money is going? And how many of them pay their taxes?

frankie
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johnmoore wrote: Why is it always the LDM freaking road? Yeah that was a huge success at the hands of gg last time. Who wants to get involved in that sham again?
richard, for an intelligent man you make a lot of ignorant assumptions "verbatim"! 
ruben, may have very well dictated something to GG, but GG and his special interest ran with it from there!! it is obvious in the sentence and verbiage structure!

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Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 05:35 pm by frankie

maryt
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I don´t think the fact the Comisario has zero budget means zero tax dollars are spent in San Carlos. It just means he doesn´t control it.

frankie
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mary, yours is an intelligent observation! money is being spent here!

RichD
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Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

I am shocked that GG would edit Ruben's words in order to stir up sh#t. I am with you johnmoore, if GG is involved, I am out. He never acknowledged his part in the last road swindle.

frankie
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remember the scene in "the wizard of oz" when the man behind the curtain is exposed?? 

GG still insists that viva is not his forum, that is GG's MO, the man behind the curtain!!

"the great and powerful OZ"

Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 06:22 pm by frankie

Richard Baca
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Kim and MaryT, FYI, the coin of the realm here is Mexican pesos NOT dollars as you both mistakenly state.

RichD, did GG edit Ruben's words? I cut and pasted Comisario Pinto's post. They are his words and his words only. The way I read it, he is unable to get any infrastructure funds out of the Guaymas treasury so, since we need some repairs and improvements he is asking for resident contributions. It was Comisario Pinto that mentioned the LDM road as an example, and I think it's a good one but there are others. The water and sewer issues though are not within the purview of the Guaymas budget. So please San Carlos, let's stay focused and support the BEST Comisario we have EVER had.

frankie
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Richard Baca wrote: Kim and MaryT, FYI, the coin of the realm here is Mexican pesos NOT dollars as you both mistakenly state.

RichD, did GG edit Ruben's words? I cut and pasted Comisario Pinto's post. They are his words and his words only. 

richard, why do you always feel the need to trump someone??? we all knew quite well what kim and mary where referring to, by the way mexico is not a REALM it is a republic!!!  !!
unless you where there when the words from the post where posted, it is only another ignorant assumption on your behalf!

Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 06:51 pm by frankie

odwyerpw
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Months ago the comisario wanted donations from extranjeros to fix CEA infrastructure. Now he is soliciting extranjero donations to fix 'The Road'.

When I recall 'The Road', I just hum 'The Rose' written by Amanda McBroom and sung by Bette Midler. In the end, I sing "In the spring becomes the Road"... and I feel allot better.

frankie
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i truly believe ruben pinto wants the best for san carlos!! why wouldn't he as he has a lot vested here!!but his hands are tied and he has expressed that! he is as frustrated as the rest of us!!
what i see is GG taking advantage of a bad situation for his own personal interests! i know ruben and his vernacular, ruben's words are being ghost written by GG!!! 

Richard Baca
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FYI Frankie, Kim and MaryT:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coin%20of%20the%20realm

You see Frankie, Kim & MaryT, the phrase "coin of the realm" refers to the legal tender currency of a country.

If I were a Mexican citizen I would consider it insulting to read where some ignoramus referred to Guaymas tax revenue as "our tax dollars". Yes of course we know what was meant, but IMO it should be properly stated, especially from an American that has taken Mexican citizenship.

Last edited on Wed Sep 20th, 2017 07:45 pm by

johnmoore
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So I get out of my car, in the always crowded parking lot, in front of the place where one pays their taxes in San Carlos. I walk the short distance to the stairs, stride up to the above patio in from of said office. I walk to the door open it, greet the one to take my money, acknowledge who I am and the property I am paying taxes on. Then I hand them my credit card, she takes it, scans it, gives me my receipt, and guess what??? I just paid my taxes in DOLLARS, and that is what they got

Richard Baca
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No cigar there Johnmoore. You see, the property tax bill was denominated in pesos and the then exchange rate was applied to you USD account. They got pesos and your cc was charged the equivalent in dollars.

odwyerpw
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Holy all things Pedantic. Wow. Somebody's in a feisty mood.

johnmoore
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So Rich, you get the point, I did not lose pesos in my stateside acct. I lost dollars......what the heck was it a donation or a contribution.

Xicotencatl
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FYI I did stop posting at Viva ( and even requested to deactivate my account) because their unlawful rules allows the moderator to modify , eliminate or make any type of editions to member postings. GG is creating his own republic there , so let him rule on his virtual empire.

about El comisario role is totally wrong to keep requesting funds to tax payer residents to fix or improve SC infrastructure , almost creating a parallel taxing and application structure. We should ( regardless of place of origin) focus him in represent the community before the mayor.Doing otherwise is to give preference to abuse of the goodwill of the SC residents.

Richard Baca
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It's voluntary Xico, and yes, it would be nice to be able to petition the Mayor and even the Governor. The problem for us is that is borders on political meddling which is illegal for foreigners. Delaying my property tax payments is not illegal and conveys a strong message. Hey, they'll get even more money from me because of the late fee! So as for me, that's what I'm gonna do.

frankie
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Richard Baca wrote  the property tax bill 
in post #20 you refer to guaymas tax revenue.

are you referring to prediales or IVA when you talk of "TAXES"??

isn't that similar to us referring to the monetary term dollars when we are spending pesos?  

since you always fell the need to cross our T's and dot our i's i thought i would do the same for you!!


predial is a property tax, IVA is a tax on goods, impuestos are income taxes! three different and distinct impounds.

most likely deposited in a treasury account waiting allocation!


Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 12:19 am by frankie

Richard Baca
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Frank and others,

1. "Predial" is indeed property tax.
2. IVA though is not a tax on goods per se; it's a "value added tax". It's "impuesto sobre el valor agregado" and in Mexico is a Federal tax. What value added is taxed? It varies from product to product. Another salient point here is that it's not a sales tax.
3. "Impuesto" = tax.
4. Income tax in Mexico is "impuesto sobre la renta".
5. Interestingly in Mexico they also use this term for capital gains tax though the correct term is
6. "Impuesto sobre ganancias de capital"= capital gains tax.

Besides property taxes, I don't know what other taxes Guaymas collects, but IVA is not one of them. What we are concerned with here is "prediales".

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 12:52 am by

frankie
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richard, good sport!!!

hans
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About asking for Money......
Why not also ask the Hotels,Restaurants and Supermarkets (aaa Casino)  in Sancarlos. That are the People that make the Money in Sancarlos and they pay quiet some Taxes.
Why they never stand up ? For them Sancarlos is a Money making Machine. And now the "Gringo" should pay for better Streets. THATS NOT RIGHT !!!!

Pardon for the Word "Gringo". Gringo means everybody thats not Mexican.
I think Ruben should also talk to them.

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 03:26 am by hans

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hans, I, and I'm sure most of "We", agree with you that SC businesses should cooperate in this endeavour. The reality is though, that it's mostly the "gringo" fideicomiso owners that are most affected. It is this demographic to whom the clarion call is directed and if the businesses also hear it, I think they should contribute. That's one part of it. The other is to make Guaymas painfully aware of the fact that it's our prediales that support Guaymas. I plan on withholding my property taxes in 2018 and paying double in 2019 plus the late fee. They will suffer without my prediales for one full year, but revel in the double bounty the next year. Vamos a ver hans... whaddayasay maguey?

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Well Dick, you are not a mexican citizen, and all you seem to do on this board is pick on statements that others make. I was making a point, adding my opinion, but as aways, you are so judgmental, and above the rest of us, (in your opinion) that it isn't even enjoyable reading the board, because you add your two cents to everything as the authority. It gets old after awhile.Better things in life to do then pick apart everything I say.

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Kim darlin, I haven't even thought of you in months! How've ya'll been? Got any meaningful opinions on all this stuff?

frankie
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Richard Baca wrote: Kim and MaryT, FYI, the coin of the realm here is Mexican pesos NOT dollars as you both mistakenly state.
baca, your post #33 says to kim you haven't thought her on months, BUT YOU WROTE THIS QUOTE LESS THAN 12 HOURS AGO!
BETTER UP YOU MEDS!!!!!!

Richard Baca
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Yer right Frankie, I'm busted! But do you hafta shout so loud? Chill out man...

frankie
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HAHAHAHAHA!

johnmoore
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Richard, that road you continue to hoe is made of concrete, good luck.

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Richard, this forum is in English. If I was writing in Spanish I would use the Spanish terms but I am not. I am well aware of what the ¨coin of the realm¨ is.

johnmoore
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Definition of coin of the realm: Webster

1 :the legal money of a country


coin of the realm
noun
1.
legal tender.

In the 1941 movie classic The Maltese Falcon, Sam Spade is negotiating with Gutman about a remuneration of $25,000 for his services. Later on, Gutman hands him an envelope with $10,000. Spade complains that they were talking about more than this sum.
Gutman replies: "Yes, sir, we were, but this is genuine coin of the realm. With a dollar of this you can buy ten dollars of talk."

Hey Ricardo, Sam or Gutman...ajajajajajajajajj??????

ruben pinto
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I MADE THE POST BY MYSELF...GG only help to make the subject. and correcting my grammar. i know that past comisarios act not the way they were suppost to do, but now is 2017. if you want to help, i can put my $ 10,000 pesos a month paycheck to any project you decide to do...let me know to who gime my check..lets work in behalf of san carlos and no more B.S. ........RUBEN

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My vote is for LM road. Also thank Mr. Pinto for posting here and also your effort and check.

johnmoore
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Thanks for the offer Ruben, and thanks for posting on this site. I hope you feel welcome here and that those of us that post here will get behind your efforts.

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Right on Ruben! Now let's all please, as comfortably as we each can, make contributions in the "coin of the realm" to this infrastructure repair fund to improve our little pueblito.

frankie
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case closed, i was correct, see my post #10!!!!

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 09:14 pm by frankie

johnmoore
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Yep you were correct Frankie. Now, the only suggestion I would make to the Comisario, is that he distance himself from San Carlos's version of P.T. Barnum/gg. I don't think that will hurt his efforts and in some cases may help.

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Ruben  
Let me add a personal welcome to our forum. We are glad you are here and are ready to assist you in any way we can. You can reach me via PM from the forum or by email at host@sancarlosmexico.com   Click on my user name bartmanaz to email me.
Bart Waldo

frankie
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mi estimado amigo ruben, bienvenado a este sito!! 

todo el mundo en este pueblito respete y te cuidan!

debes distanciarse de GG!

ruben excuse my spanish, it's worse than your english! jajajaja!

tu amigo frank

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 09:34 pm by frankie

Richard Baca
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Like it or not, The Viva Board has the most members and widest readership. This site complements it and offers alternate views, not a bad thing.

frankie
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Richard Baca wrote: Like it or not, The Viva Board has the most members and widest readership.
baca, this site does not extort or intimidate it's viewers!
there is no puppet owner here!!!
it is run by a man who is respected!!
it is a matter of intellect and morals!!

frankie
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i just got of the phone with ruben, the 10,000. pesos he is offering is his monthly salary as comisario!!
i would say that is putting your money where your mouth is!
thanks ruben that should give many incentive to help!

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Gracias Señor Pinto, usted tiene mi apoyo.

Last edited on Thu Sep 21st, 2017 10:33 pm by Danodamano

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it looks like there is room for everyone but why all the bashing why not just pitch in and help out the problem is not going to solve itslf

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Ruben, we all know that raising money to fix the Loma Del Mar road will be difficult after the road swindle of a few years ago. Part time residents will be coming back soon and some will be willing to help and some will not. At least we now know that the city of Guaymas is not going to get involved so I hope we can put that discussion to bed. Can you tell us if there will be any problems with authorizing a paving project? Can a private group close the road during construction and detour traffic? Can you recommend paving contractors that would provide bids? Thank you for being honest about the position of city government. It is not what many wanted to hear but it is important to know the truth.

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THANKS "VisitorSanCarlos"! That's the healthy kind of attitude I like to see! Our motto is this is "Let's git 'er done!"

RichD the LDM road is just one of the projects on the table. Of more immediate concern are the topes by Totonaka going West and before Charly's Rock going East. Then there's Calle "0" from Avenida "H" (LDM road) to Avenida "I" and back to Blvd. M.F. Beltrones; this is the street in front of Telmex that everyone uses when paying their phone bill. And there are others but yes, LDM is on the list and suggestions are welcome.

BTW, examples of private funding for street improvements include the street on the West side of the Crestón Hotel, two blocks long; Almost all of the Country Club; the gatehouse and street going up the Caracol Peninsula; the street back through Loma Bella and a few other smaller ones. It's true that these were mostly funded by frequent users, but we all use them at some point and it's nice to have. My salient point though is that the City only issued the permits; they didn't provide any funding.

Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:03 am by

johnmoore
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......and most, if not all the streets in Villahermosa. I personally would like the LDM road to be,...Last! I am afraid the issues that project will incur will be, once again overwhelming, resulting in the other aforementioned projects taking it in the arse.

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The order of priority will be up to the Comisario but IMO, the LDM road is most heavily used and the LDM Association should be the heavy hitter.

Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:09 am by

johnmoore
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.........and that is the reason I will not give funds for that. (LMD), that is why I want it last. Prove the lessor things can be done successfully. I live on the Villahermosa loop, you come pay for my road, then, and only then will I give to the LDM road. The VH loop is used by many, that do not live in the area,......but most of all never have the folks living in VH asked the LDM people to fund the loop and the streets that connect the loop.
I realize there is no such thing as the VH loop, look at a map of the sector,  use your imagination and you can figure out what I refer to.

Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:31 am by johnmoore

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it is time for you all to get a reality check!

i am on the architectural committee where i live! i have 3 bids from the 3 best road builders to build a 1/10 of a mile road of asphalt!

this road is designed for medium heavy use, "standard residential road"

they all came in very close!!

1/10 of a mile of asphalt road is + or - 250,000. pesos that = $14,500. USD

1/2 mile will cost $72,500. USD 1 mile will cost $145,000. USD 

Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 12:49 am by frankie

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I think that's very selfish johnmoore. You say "mine before yours..". I could say, "pave Manglares before VH..." but I don't. What I do say is "let the Comisario decide". And look at Frankie's post No. 58 above; It will take almost 1,500 residents contributing US$100 each to pave one mile of medium heavy road. Now, a street like Calle "0" should cost much less, but I'm in agreement with Frank here (OMG, agreement with Frank! Lightning could strike next!), but money will be needed. Some residents with deep pockets will contribute $1,000's while others will contribute $10's or $100's. Be that as it may, "Let's git 'er done!" The Comisario needs a committee of at least two; so far, there's one, (no, not GG!).

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Once again, foot in mouth Richard spouts off without credence. I didn't say do ours first, I said do LDM road last. I guarantee you, Villahermosa, will not be considered for anything. Also, I am not selfish, more like self-sufficient, as are most of the VH residents. Back to subject, LMD last, first topes, calle 0, etc....LDM last

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Comes now "foot in the mouth" Richard quoting "johnmoore":

johnmoore wrote: I live on the Villahermosa loop, you come pay for my road, then, and only then will I give to the LDM road.

Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 02:24 am by

frankie
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i have been involved with urban planning projects!
fast forwarding and contemplating our needs as a community as a whole.
the most needed projects need be contemplated,(say 3)  cost estimates are obtained with a total cost!
these estimates are presented to a local, state or federal government or all!
the carrot on the stick is san carlos (us) offers to pay a percentage of the cost 30,40,50,60%.
the governments would find this appealing as they are obligated to do the work with their own funding! 
what is needed with these types of negotiations are the "mover shakers of the community"! 

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Perhaps when contributions are made, the contributor could could prioritize 1-5. Villa Hermosa, Calle O, Topes, LDM, Street lights, other. That way Señor Pinto will have an idea of the majorities preferences.

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Desperation, Richard, taking one sentence out of context. In context you would have read, we have not solicited funds from outside our sector, and that my real insistence is that "this fix up SC committee" proves itself, before doing LDM.

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Now really "johnmoore", I agree that the VH loop was one of those torn up with the mid '90's sewer installation and should be returned to original by the City. But we all know, "it ain't gonna happen", so we hafta take the bull by the horns and "git 'er done" ourselves. Once we have a reputable contractor working for us on one of the other projects, it should be easy to get a bid on one of the others like say VH loop or Manglares. And who knows, maybe shame the Guaymas government into revenue sharing, or better yet, the State. Meanwhile everyone, mull over Frankie's numbers, they're good!

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there are optimists
there are pessimists
some of us are realists
what is needed is funding for 3 road improvement projects as i stated in an earlier post, always try to obtain for several because the donors will donate once and tire and not donate again!
lets just say an unrealistic 3 miles "very short distance"  5 or more miles is more likely!
 3 miles will cost $435,000. usd!!
i see it as an unrealistic unobtainable goal!! even if san carlos where able to obtain 50% $217,500. usd and the rest government funding!i don't even see 50% $217,500. as obtainable goal!!]
no matter how many times you say "get r done"
that is being a realist!!


Last edited on Fri Sep 22nd, 2017 04:12 am by frankie

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it is obvious why this program will never happen the posters here prefer bickering pointing fingers and complaining to rolling up their sleeves and pitching in very sad to watch

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I think it'll get done Visitor, but yes, we have those that will argue and bicker 'till the cows come home. But let'em as long as they contribute...

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You are correct.There is Richard that thinks he is a voice of the community because he has been here a long time. He is a gadfly and yenta that stirs the pot and is basically 'the problem and not the solution'.Because you have been here and have hundreds of posts, WHO CARES?!You are the past and the problem. You talk a good game but never have you stepped up and put your butt on the line. That has always been for others to do while you snipe at what others do.Ok you are old and have been here for years. SO WHAT. What have you done to correct ANY problem except to put it on others to do, then complain about what they do.You do not have the pulse of the community, you do not have any influence. If you did why don't you use it and show what you have done? Why, because you are just someone that thinks time should give you a 'pat on the back' because of who you THINK you are.Time to retire and give the reigns to people will try do do things instead of your ilk that wants others to do it for them.Next time you post on this site and the other, (almost 1600 times, WHY so many) just enjoy your time, have a drink and enjoy, instead of being a pain in the rear.

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johnny d, touche!!!

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does anyone want to discuss a realistic project like the topes?????

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Frankie, as I told you before, I consider myself a pragmatist.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=pragmatist&oq=pragmatist&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i10k1j0j0i20i264k1j0i10k1.3671.10799.0.12311.14.12.1.0.0.0.177.1426.0j10.11.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.12.1599.6..35i39k1j0i131k1.168.lOeZ2xN5BDc

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a pragmatist would have crunched the numbers!!!

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I am OK with all of the choices, but it seems logical to use the Pesos for the smaller issues, then as confidence builds...move to the more high cost stuff... what can you do with 10,000.00 pesos this month... plus individual contributions??? Topes, Lighting of the highway, water and sewer come under STATE AND fED.. lets move on Ruben's proposal he's offered 10K to kick it off... im in

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Limey wrote: I am OK with all of the choices, but it seems logical to use the Pesos for the smaller issues, Topes, lets move on Ruben's proposal he's offered 10K to kick it off... im in
 affordable , obtainable , realistic!!

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I like post #75, as a follow up, the goals need to be defined, what are the projects, and in what order will they be addressed? What are the costs of each project? How does one give financial assistance to each project? In my opinion, one project at a time, and one period of giving to said project. In other words, if you start with the LDM road, those that want to give to that project can. Then maybe the second project is topes, give, or not. Each project should be individually funded, and funds, other than excess should only be used for the stated project.

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I thought the restaurants themselves were paying for the topes in front of Charlie´s Rock and Los Arbolitos. Have they constructed them yet?

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I nominate Richard Baca and Frankie to head the committee.  You are both friends with the Comisario, you both understand construction, you are both bilingual.  Thank you. 

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#78, Here's your "Second" on that nomination.

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.

ezmony
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DITTO

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Has this project ended, me thinks frankies figures scared everyone off. Lot of talk, what else is new?

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the topes are worthy consideration. monies can also be collected for asphalt patches on the main boulevard.

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The topes would come under the Municipio's purview, however, maintenance of the blvd is that of the namesake.

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Richard, Frankie didn't come up with the topes idea, Ruben and others did. So are you saying that Ruben does not have the authority? Are you saying that Beltrones is responsible for maintenance? Frankie has done a lot of the worthwhile research, so I will cede to Ruben and Frankie on this project.

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Ruben Pinto has obtained the permits for the topes therefore he has the authority. What he could not get from the Guaymas Mayor was funding for said topes which is why he is asking for contributions from SC Residents. The other projects will come later as funding becomes available from whatever source.

Maintenance of the Blvd. and the infamous fountain is the responsibility of the namesake, Lic. Manlio Fabio Beltrones. I thought that I had made these points clear that clear in my short No. 84 above.

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NUMBERS FOR LDM ROAD.lenght....2650 meters......widht    7.50 mts......repaved with a 3 cm microcarpeta hot...cost aprox 2"300,000 pesos   at 17x1...135,294 US DLLS.two section of 150 mts each need to be rebuild complete, mainly after the tkt store and tire shop...price may be lower depending  our team with the money to negociate

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I believe that Ruben stated that the topes would be paid for by the businesses that are adjacent to their location.
Either the businesses have failed to produce the funds, or the topes are too expensive??? if the businesses that agreed to topes fail to fund the topes, then the whole idea of residents funding other projects will never materialize..i am not going to fork over my pesos if the business people are not willing to fund these projects... they are the ones who benefit financially from the improvements...a nicer road,lighting..water are all good for me, but the businesses are the real benefactors...more visitors to San Carlos is money in their pockets...:dude:

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TOPES.. CHARLYS ROCK AND ARBOLITOS WILL PAY FOR THEY OWN TOPEtopes at circle K corners will be done wenever we get together to do something to fix S.C. 

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$135,000US means it is not going to get done. Will just drive slow and make the best of it.

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Richard, find myself agreeing with you, considering the costs. What was the bill of goods sold by the last effort to fix that road? I know it was no where near that. Was the bid lower at that time because it was a scam, or was it less due to what they were purposing to do? If they were purposing to pave over, or seriously repair, maybe that is a better way to go. We know that with proper attention and material that road could be repaired to last for a considerable amount of time. Thoughts??

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Pessimism is something we don't need. US$135,000 is not a lot of money in the big picture if residents want it done. It's a matter of community will in light of the fact that our property taxes are applied in Guaymas and not here. We must therefore find our own ways and means.

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"US$135,000 is not a lot of money"

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Ok Baca, if 135,000 is not a lot of money, how much are YOU putting up.No pessimism please.You are always good at wanting OTHERS to do what you won't.Since you think you are a pillar of the community, it is only fair that you startwith say $50,000.I am sure your friend and mentor, Ruben will agree that you should do this and set an example.

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Last edited on Mon Sep 25th, 2017 09:51 pm by RichD

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Richard, Grossman along with initial buyers at LDM, built the original road. Did this establish any responsibility? Who, really, is responsible for the road? I'm sure this has been established , I just can't remember at this time. Perhaps your idea of a little at a time would work..I know that if I lived out there the road, the way it is now, would real old, real fast.

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Richard Baca, how many people use the road as an access to their property? Divide that figure into $135,000 and we will know what to expect (meaning their contribution) from each beneficiary of the new road.

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Before I'd get involved with this project, I'd buy taller tires with a road hazard warranty

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ruben pinto wrote: NUMBERS FOR LDM ROAD.lenght....2650 meters......widht    7.50 mts......repaved with a 3 cm microcarpeta hot...cost aprox 2"300,000 pesos   at 17x1...135,294 US DLLS.two section of 150 mts each need to be rebuild complete, mainly after the tkt store and tire shop

ruben thank you for you hard work!!

some people don't understand,  3cm "micro"carpeta is about 1 1/4 inch thick.
people from the USA maybe familiar with "chip sealing" seeing a truck spreading hot asphalt then a coat of gravel. works very well for the road, murder on the windshields! 
the pot holes need to be filled!
read carefully there are 2 sections of 150 mts!!
lets keep our faith in ruben, i am sure he has something in the works!

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Most of the Jackalopes posting here are like the GOP passing the health care bill.
7 years and no closer.


Just take it one bite at a time... Topes, Topes, Topes...


Just a bunch of jaw flappers. I am sick of reading the Bitchin. I am surprised that you all even made it to Mexico. I figured you would still be back on the block flapping about the move!!!!!

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Good to hear from you Jimmy! (BTW, that wuz three bites...:) When are you gonna be in town for some rojas? And some "jaw flappin"?!

Last edited on Mon Sep 25th, 2017 10:59 pm by

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Jimmy wrote

Just take it one bite at a time... Topes, Topes, Topes...




i agree

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I agree as well. I haven't purchased a home yet and currently renting but I be glad to pay for a topes in front of my rental. Cars fly around the bay. 

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Look everyone, we don't contribute to any selfish or self serving purpose such as "topes in front of my house" or only for this or that! What we are contributing to is for the greater good, not anyone's personal wish list!

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Richard B, if you are referring to post #104 you are way off base, read it again. He was not soliciting anything?

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fellow viewers, i have enjoyed many threads and enjoyed a lot of educated posts!

 during the last few weeks i have received many PM's from you and seen some of you publicly! all with  the same comments and advice to me! i thank you for this to help better myself!

 we have all seen a disturbing pattern of one of our posters!
it has become counter productive for the different threads and posts!

for myself i am going to do my best not to be baited by this individual! i can only recommend you do the same!
i want to apologize to all of you, for the counter productive banter i have allowed myself to participate in!

 i can only hope you forgive  me!!

Last edited on Tue Sep 26th, 2017 06:43 am by frankie

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mp3cdr wrote: ... but I be glad to pay for a topes in front of my rental. Cars fly around the bay. 
Johnmoore, the way I read that is "glad to pay for topes in front of his rental" but what about what this whole effort is about? It's not specifically about his rental or my torn up street, or the LDM road, or Calle "0", it's about the greater good as determined by our Comisario. He wants resident funding for SC priorities that he can't get Guaymas treasury funding for. It may well be that Bahía topes are high on the list (I hope so), but it's all up to the Comisario and yes we can all make suggestions to him. 

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All this discussion reminds me the tale of giving a man a fish or teach him to fish...I am totally against this type of fund raising from our old "rich" gringos (and some Mexicans as well) as they should stop being seen as the big bucks guys in the town, and sometimes this is not longer true.

There are federal funds, at SEDESOL or even Hacienda ( FAIP for instance) were a good documented project for pavement to SC can download really big money from the Mexican Feds, were although funding is applied via Guaymas Mayor, it will be a federal crime if he attempts to use them for other purpose other than funding the specific project the funds are paying

My vote against the easy solution of squeezing the residents as in the old times, if the Comisario has NO idea of his role and available resources I prefer to contribute, through a residents committee, to pay a consultant that can help him make a real, professional project, to apply for federal funds and really change the town. The mayor will never oppose to this and will not be able to touch a cent of the big bucks that can be obtained like that, overseen by a residents committee in a trust ,the story will be different. Richard, stop soliciting for money like that, get the comisario to work or at least motivate him to learn which really good options he actually have to bring solutions to SC.

Last edited on Tue Sep 26th, 2017 05:08 am by Xicotencatl

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post #109 yours is a well thought out educated response!!
thank you!!!

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700.00 per person .but lets not go cheap... you need to do a tear up then repair the road bed, then 4 inches og ashphalt... not a spray and gravel job, the heat would only make the tar melt in the heat..if you are going to do it spend the money and do it right.

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The reality is Richard B, Mp3's suggested method of getting things done, is generally the only way things get done here.......and you know it. This is a do it yourself place. Sometimes you can convince your neighbors to chip in on a street project, but anything outside the neighborhood is just too far away to matter. That is why after taking care of my street for some 30 years plus, when many cars using my efforts, I find it hard to come into someone else's neighborhood and support $$$$$$$, their efforts...that's not selfish, that is self sufficient and sensible.

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I will contribute to most any project on Beltrones.

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Unfortunately johnmoore, yours seems to be the general attitude and the reality of San Carlenses. Be that as it may, the community has some minor infrastructure needs, and our Comisario has asked for Resident contributions since he cannot get any money out of the Guaymas treasury. I think it's up to us to contribute whatever we can and it's up to him as to how and where it is applied.

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unfortunately Richard baca, yours seems to a socialistic, "the few take care of the many", type attitude. If there on 12 homes on my street, 6 each side and we all maintain the street in front of our homes, we have a pristine street. If we fund raise to maintain the street and 4 home owners donate, and 8 do not, we have leeches, and no pristine street. Unfortunately, that is the way things work here in SC, due to whatever reason the Mexican politicians give you, and you are willing to swallow said explanation.

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Richard Baca wrote: Unfortunately johnmoore, yours seems to be the general attitude and the reality of San Carlenses. Be that as it may, the community has some minor infrastructure needs, and our Comisario has asked for Resident contributions since he cannot get any money out of the Guaymas treasury. I think it's up to us to contribute whatever we can and it's up to him as to how and where it is applied.first sentence : False, second sentence : Unacceptable , third sentence : He has not looked at other options Fourth sentence : totally wrong. 
If you want to see a real change involve the community, be transparent and LOOK or being less arrogant LEARN where the money can be obtained. I will not support nor give a cent to somebody that is looking for an easy way to raise funds and apply where He wishes. Richard B. you normally self nominate to be the expert voice on SC, IT IS NOT the case.

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So true johnmoore, but the alternative here in the case of needed topes and Calle "0" repair is wallow in our own mire or move to get something done. It's unfortunately true that it will be a few with civic responsibility in mind that will contribute while the leeches enjoy. Like you, I wish it were otherwise, but it is what it is.

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And I a third. I certainly am not qualified. I am a great Monday morning quarterback although I will stand for National anthems, LOL. Frankie and Richard have opposing views and ideas on some things but could be very helpful in a committee of three or five or maybe even 7 with Ruben as the chair and tiebreaker. The community could contribute honest and helpful suggestions and the junta could hash it out and go from there. Again, we have in my opinion never had a comisario who would even try. We should use Ruben to at least attempt improvements. Ron

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Xicotencatl wrote: All this discussion reminds me the tale of giving a man a fish or teach him to fish...I am totally against this type of fund raising from our old "rich" gringos (and some Mexicans as well) as they should stop being seen as the big bucks guys in the town, and sometimes this is not longer true.

There are federal funds, at SEDESOL or even Hacienda ( FAIP for instance) were a good documented project for pavement to SC can download really big money from the Mexican Feds, were although funding is applied via Guaymas Mayor, it will be a federal crime if he attempts to use them for other purpose other than funding the specific project the funds are paying

My vote against the easy solution of squeezing the residents as in the old times, if the Comisario has NO idea of his role and available resources I prefer to contribute, through a residents committee, to pay a consultant that can help him make a real, professional project, to apply for federal funds and really change the town. The mayor will never oppose to this and will not be able to touch a cent of the big bucks that can be obtained like that, overseen by a residents committee in a trust ,the story will be different. Richard, stop soliciting for money like that, get the comisario to work or at least motivate him to learn which really good options he actually have to bring solutions to SC.

Amid all the disasters and Federal dollars going to those causes, I'd say that applying for Federal funds should probably get something done in San Carlos  by late 2030.

I read an article just recently that stated that the Federal govt plans on spending about 20% less, across the board, in Mexico in 2018. Pretty sure it was on Mexico Daily News, which is really only a consolidator of news stories from within and outside of Mexico.

Last edited on Tue Sep 26th, 2017 11:41 pm by Hook

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Hook wrote: Xicotencatl wrote: All this discussion reminds me the tale of giving a man a fish or teach him to fish...I am totally against this type of fund raising from our old "rich" gringos (and some Mexicans as well) as they should stop being seen as the big bucks guys in the town, and sometimes this is not longer true.

There are federal funds, at SEDESOL or even Hacienda ( FAIP for instance) were a good documented project for pavement to SC can download really big money from the Mexican Feds, were although funding is applied via Guaymas Mayor, it will be a federal crime if he attempts to use them for other purpose other than funding the specific project the funds are paying

My vote against the easy solution of squeezing the residents as in the old times, if the Comisario has NO idea of his role and available resources I prefer to contribute, through a residents committee, to pay a consultant that can help him make a real, professional project, to apply for federal funds and really change the town. The mayor will never oppose to this and will not be able to touch a cent of the big bucks that can be obtained like that, overseen by a residents committee in a trust ,the story will be different. Richard, stop soliciting for money like that, get the comisario to work or at least motivate him to learn which really good options he actually have to bring solutions to SC.

Amid all the disasters and Federal dollars going to those causes, I'd say that applying for Federal funds should probably get something done in San Carlos  by late 2030.

I read an article just recently that stated that the Federal govt plans on spending about 20% less, across the board, in Mexico in 2018. Pretty sure it was on Mexico Daily News, which is really only a consolidator of news stories from within and outside of Mexico.


I really think that SC needs to be its own municipality to get its fair share of the funds its generates .
Guaymas has degenerated into a shadow of itself and will need more and more resources as its population continues to grow while its industry continues its downward spiral.So while I am simpatico to their problems, I think that Mayor of Guaymas would cut our resources even more in the future to ensure that the larger contingent of voters kept the PRI or Pan in power there if funds were raised from the tourists here.
More topes, or pot holes are not responsible for most of the accidents and fast driving here, its the lack of enforcement that is already being funded.
It takes a lot of money to run a town, and donations from some of the tourists is never going to add up to enough funding to meet SC needs.

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Why would someone ask the deadbeats on this board for anything to improve their community? These are folks who couldn't make it on the beach in Cal. And, they are a opinionated, argumentative, self centered, egotistical, small group of folks who's contribution wouldn't make a hill of beans anyway.(If they contributed).  They are here because of the $100 a year property tax instead of $8,000 a year. Asking them for a $1,000 for community improvements is like asking them for their shriveled-up left nut. They are "SO" predictable. If you count them out, it is just a handful of blow-hards who don't count for much anyway.


I SAY, FORGET ANY IMPROVEMENTS! The problems are just part of the "Mexico Experience" and lets all live with them.


It's every man for himself. Don't you know.

Last edited on Wed Sep 27th, 2017 02:59 am by Jimmy

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Ah Jimmy, you really know how to cut to the quick don't you? I agree with you but still hope for better from most of our residents. After all, not all are deadbeats but we have more than the allocable share on this board!

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Jimmy, What brought that on? If one does just a bit of thinking, how many SC (village wise) projects have you been associated with? Were they successful, or did you feel you were scammed? To rail as you did, paints with a broad brush, how does that help? It is my understanding that you have been giving of yourself and your time, working in the areas devastated by Harvey and Irma, and I commend you for that..thanks. Guess you have been keeping up on what has been going on, on this thread?? Was wondering, why was your post was so accusatory and demeaning....to who?? Anyway the projects need to be addressed rationally and to the degree that they will come to a successful conclusion. 
I asked you if you had been involved in other fund raising issues here??  If so, does this make any sense to you?, "Pessimism is something we don't need. US$135,000 is not a lot of money"???  that statement was professed by baca, one should never mistake sensible realism, and a thoughtful approach, to pessimism.  Only frustrated proponents of irrational projects would use that verbiage, or one well heeled enough to fund the project him or herself.  Go for it baca.  Anyway, anyone being here for any amount of time knows the problems and knows there is always tons of bluster, and the issues, that really need to be addressed, fade into the sunset.....until the next go round.

Last edited on Wed Sep 27th, 2017 02:57 pm by johnmoore

frankie
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Jimmy wrote:

I SAY, FORGET ANY IMPROVEMENTS! The problems are just part of the "Mexico Experience" and lets all live with them.




jimmy's post #120, hooks post #118, bullshippers post #119, are not being pessimistic they are all "REALISTS"!!!!!

baca you state in different quotes; $135,000. USD is not a lot of money, there only MINOR infrastructure problems! are you living in a fantasy? oh ya you are a pragmatist. 

our roads, water , sewer, lighting are the infrastructure!!!
to make san carlos the shining star it should be will cost in the millions!

so as jimmy says lets live with "mexican experience"

Last edited on Wed Sep 27th, 2017 03:40 pm by frankie

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I have a question. It's only a question, based on what I've read in this thread and the tope thread.

There are four needed topes on Beltrones being discussed at the moment (before fiesta hotel..or whatever it's called, before circle K, before Charlie's rock and before los Arboles). The owners of Los Arboles and Charlie's Rock have agreed to fund the topes that would benefit their locations. Ruben has already received permission from Guaymas to install them.

So if the funds and the permission have been available for as long as they have (going back to the tope thread that is somewhat old now), why haven't these first two Topes been installed as a model of what businesses can do to improve the infrastructure? This would make the Malecon safer. I mean, it's ready to go, right?

Then, perhaps the owners of Fiesta and CircleK will follow suite and fund the topes in front of their locations, making the glorieta safer.

I guess it was more than one question.
*edited for type

Last edited on Wed Sep 27th, 2017 04:33 pm by odwyerpw

Xicotencatl
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Hook wrote: Xicotencatl wrote: All this discussion reminds me the tale of giving a man a fish or teach him to fish...I am totally against this type of fund raising from our old "rich" gringos (and some Mexicans as well) as they should stop being seen as the big bucks guys in the town, and sometimes this is not longer true.

There are federal funds, at SEDESOL or even Hacienda ( FAIP for instance) were a good documented project for pavement to SC can download really big money from the Mexican Feds, were although funding is applied via Guaymas Mayor, it will be a federal crime if he attempts to use them for other purpose other than funding the specific project the funds are paying

My vote against the easy solution of squeezing the residents as in the old times, if the Comisario has NO idea of his role and available resources I prefer to contribute, through a residents committee, to pay a consultant that can help him make a real, professional project, to apply for federal funds and really change the town. The mayor will never oppose to this and will not be able to touch a cent of the big bucks that can be obtained like that, overseen by a residents committee in a trust ,the story will be different. Richard, stop soliciting for money like that, get the comisario to work or at least motivate him to learn which really good options he actually have to bring solutions to SC.

Amid all the disasters and Federal dollars going to those causes, I'd say that applying for Federal funds should probably get something done in San Carlos  by late 2030.

I read an article just recently that stated that the Federal govt plans on spending about 20% less, across the board, in Mexico in 2018. Pretty sure it was on Mexico Daily News, which is really only a consolidator of news stories from within and outside of Mexico.

Hook, I did not know you are an expert on federal funds , if your guide is the newspaper You should know that funds requested by Nov. are downloaded no later than April next year... Nogales year budget is 500 MP, BUT they manage to download no less than 1,000 MP each YEAR from the feds. What you need to get them? present a decent project , make sound numbers on benefits on the population and start learning were to get them and how. Mexican experience ? KMA ! I have tried Lansing, Benton Harbor MI , Luisiana and even Montana Experience as well,not very different in some of them....

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XICONTECATL... i am a electronics and communications expert, and lately in the restaurant bussines, and 29 years as airplane pilot.... i do not know, and do not want to get involve in corruption loans that wants 30 % of the money they find for you..if the money go to guaymas we will never see it, or maybe a small portion.seems to me that you know many many many many ways to get funds to improve sancarlos.... i will love solutions, not problems.if you know how to do it, make a application with the comisaria letterhead and i will sing it.if you want to help, please do it...do not complain for our way to fix the town, maybe is wrong, but we all need bright brains like your to go in the correct direction...WILL YOU HELP'??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Ruben, rules of operation of most federal funds enforces the opening of a specific bank account where they are deposited ,withdrawn and subject to stiff audits. It is not true that Guaymas can touch those funds in anyway other than specified without a major consequence; the very low rating of Guaymas finance punishes the aportaciones federales, not to mention accounts embargo. I don't doubt that some funds can be subject to moches as they call it,especially those that involves diputados intervention, like FORTALECE or FAIP; but the one that just try to put a nail inside of FORTASEG for instance will be in jail soon. I know something about the theme, yes but You need an expert to teach you what options you can have for changing the town, hint SEDESOL can help a lot. A comisaria letterhead is not enough , any request of Federal funds must be signed by the mayor, treasurer and the sindico, sometimes with cabildo approval and special formats are needed, not just a comisaria letter.

Without your capital letters and spotlights I am already trying to help the city where I live and will not disclose with whom I talk or what I am doing. Not complaining on your methods, I DO NOT AGREE and don't have to when I know you have many other options, talk to your boss,nominate community members and form a committee,solely Mr. Baca or Herr Gadsby are not enough, explore alternatives and seek for real funds and professional advice, you are asking for aspirines to cure Cancer and believe me , will support from my trench a constructive, serious effort to improve SC.

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Xicotencatl wrote: Ruben, rules of operation of most federal funds enforces the opening of a specific bank account where they are deposited ,withdrawn and subject to stiff audits. It is not true that Guaymas can touch those funds in anyway other than specified without a major consequence; the very low rating of Guaymas finance punishes the aportaciones federales, not to mention accounts embargo. I don't doubt that some funds can be subject to moches as they call it,especially those that involves diputados intervention, like FORTALECE or FAIP; but the one that just try to put a nail inside of FORTASEG for instance will be in jail soon. I know something about the theme, yes but You need an expert to teach you what options you can have for changing the town, hint SEDESOL can help a lot. A comisaria letterhead is not enough , any request of Federal funds must be signed by the mayor, treasurer and the sindico, sometimes with cabildo approval and special formats are needed, not just a comisaria letter.

Without your capital letters and spotlights I am already trying to help the city where I live and will not disclose with whom I talk or what I am doing. Not complaining on your methods, I DO NOT AGREE and don't have to when I know you have many other options, talk to your boss,nominate community members and form a committee,solely Mr. Baca or Herr Gadsby are not enough, explore alternatives and seek for real funds and professional advice, you are asking for aspirines to cure Cancer and believe me , will support from my trench a constructive, serious effort to improve SC.
this sounds like a sound educated advice! 
the baca/gadsby plan stinks of "paradise air"if private "resident" funding is the only solution, then do it correctly !!HERE IS A CONCEPTTHE SAN CARLOS INFRASTRUCTURE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUND"GOAL $500,000. / 1,000,000. USD WITH A 2 YEAR CAP!CERTIFIED COUPONS IN THE AMOUNTS OF $20 , 50, 100 ALL REFUNDABLE HELD IN AN INTEREST BEARING TRUST ACCOUNT IN THE USA, you can buy as many as you wantan oversight committee of professionals, in the urban renewal fieldthe infrastructure projects with the most need first, bids accepted from 3 contractors for each project.when the different infrastructural projects are approved, public notice is given and monies are funded. at that time refunds are canceled this is just a concept!!!!!!

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Frankie is on the right track. Time to stop bickering, backbiting and name-calling and set up a program.  Tell folks where and how they can contribute; who is going to control, manage and disburse the funds; administer, supervise and QC any projects contracted; and make solid progress with reports to the constituents.  The rest is horse poop and gun smoke.  
Bart

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I totally agree Bart, and all that has been responded to. It's clear as where to contribute. Are you in? It's time to get it on. The smart ones got it, the dumb ones can wallow in their own.

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Baca, I think you stepped over the line and insulted a lot of good people here - and what they do with THEIR money. I've lived here 12 years, and if you think Calle O or the LDM road deserves money and attention more than the Castaway Kids education programs - you're a 1st class moron.

Paving Calle O is smart ?????

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I'm afraid some people can't differentiate apples from oranges. And calling those of us that can, "1st class morons" just IMO shows 1st class ignorance!

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Baca, you are one condescending MFer.. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would not be attempting to peddle real estate..

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Richard Baca wrote: I totally agree Bart, and all that has been responded to. It's clear as where to contribute. Are you in? It's time to get it on. The smart ones got it, the dumb ones can wallow in their own.
baca, as an intelligent individual you are one ignorant SOB!!!
where is the plan?
who is on the steering committee?
what is the goal amount?
what is the timeline?
????????????
throw in the towel!!!! you are chasing away any prospective contributors!!

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frankie wrote:
baca, as an intelligent individual you are one ignorant SOB!!!


after careful and thoughtful consideration i retract this statement, your just an ignorant,obstinate,condescending, SOB!!!! 

your trying to lead the good citizens of san carlos and viewers of this site down the same DOOMED path as "paradise air"

i have 2 questions for you "mr. know it all";

1)how much did you contribute?????
2) what happens to the money if enough isn't raised??? 



Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 04:23 am by frankie

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Altough I reserve my personal opinion on Mr. Baca and this attempt to raise funds for.... WHERE IS THE PLAN? that is the first question WHERE IS THE PLAN ? a dumb one like me will first ask, as well as the feds or the interesting concept of a Trust laid down by Frankie. Any professional consultant will also be a dumb for asking which plan We (excuse me, you intelligent fellows) want to finance, No plan? just what the comisario decides on his own? that is the plan? No plan? No dumb money.

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I went back through this entire thread and still don't know the answers to my questions posed in my post #129.  Where do I send a contribution, who is managing the funds, the projects and reporting?  Mr Baca states this is all responded to and it is clear where to contribute, but not where I can see it.

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OK, Here is the "Nothing Accomplished Posts Count".


Frankie...................32 posts


Richard Baca............29 posts


Johnmoore...............26 posts


Also posting just 1 or 2 or 3 posts; 18, including myself.


If I had to make guess after reading this Thread, I would say that this opinionated, argumentative, self centered, egotistical, small group of folks will Never be able to work togerther and will Never Accomplish Anything.


Si O No


 





Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 03:07 pm by Jimmy

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Jimmy wrote: OK, Here is the "Nothing Accomplished Posts Count".


Frankie...................32 posts


Richard Baca............29 posts


Johnmoore...............26 posts


Also posting just 1 or 2 or 3 posts; 18, including myself.


If I had to make guess after reading this Thread, I would say that this opinionated, argumentative, self centered, egotistical, small group of folks will Never be able to work togerther and will Never Accomplish Anything.


Si O No


jimmy, lets get something straight!! there is only one person BACA who trying to push this down everyone's throat's!
 

baca's approach is "cart before the horse" !! there is no published plan, there is no published goal, collection of funds is extremely sketchy, AND WE AS A COMMUNITY ARE EXPECTED TO UNITE BEHIND THIS, TO ATTEMPT TO COLLECT $135,000. USD??
there is absolutely no professionalism to this drive! i am not a part of this drive!! i have seen grade school-er"s with more professionalism than this with bake sales, car washes, ect!!!before you start barking at me, remember i supported your post "mexican experience"!!!





Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 03:21 pm by frankie

johnmoore
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Jimmy, And I do expect a reply, an argument could be made, that while the 3 posters you mentioned do not agree on the implementation of the projects, there is no denial the 3 are proponents of the projects. So I claim that folks, such as you, are the problem, calling out people, who are well meaning, yet fail at being able to coordinate the effort. You might ask yourself, Hey Jimmy, what the heck have I done to contribute, in any way, other than negatively to this cause.

Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 03:32 pm by johnmoore

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frankie wrote: Jimmy wrote:

I SAY, FORGET ANY IMPROVEMENTS! The problems are just part of the "Mexico Experience" and lets all live with them.




jimmy's post #120, hooks post #118, bullshippers post #119, are not being pessimistic they are all "REALISTS"!!!!!

baca you state in different quotes; $135,000. USD is not a lot of money, there only MINOR infrastructure problems! are you living in a fantasy? oh ya you are a pragmatist. 

our roads, water , sewer, lighting are the infrastructure!!!
to make san carlos the shining star it should be will cost in the millions!

so as jimmy says lets live with "mexican experience"

jimmy, here is a reminder to you!!!!!!!!!!

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johnmoore wrote: Hey Jimmy, what the heck have I done to contribute, in any way, other than negatively to this cause.
there is several things that you john, hook, bullshipper, jimmy, xicotencatl, bart and myself ALL agree on;

there is nothing practical,functional,organized about BACA"S / GG's inspired fund drive!!! IT IS CART BEFORE THE HORSE!

ruben clearly stated what his educational back round is and is looking for community support! 

from my urban planning experience i gave my opinion, AS DID OTHERS.

IF THIS IS EVER TO GET OFF THE GROUND THERE NEEDS TO BE A PROFESSIONAL APPROACH!

UNTIL THAT CAN BE OBTAINED, JIMMY'S COMMENT ON JUST LIVING THE "MEXICAN EXPERIENCE" IS THE BEST ADVICE!!

Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 03:52 pm by frankie

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THE PLAN is supposed to come from this process that the Comisario has initiated on the message boards. The first part of THE PLAN is requesting the formation of an advisory panel. After that, establishing goals and soliciting donations becomes part of THE PLAN.

I'm with Bart on this. Lead, follow or get out of the way! If you dont want to be part of the solution, dont be part of the problem by bickering and giving others the idea that San Carlos can't work together for common goals. This town has shown, time and time again, that it CAN work together on goals. 

Sure, it would be great if Guaymas funded our road needs better. It would be great if Guaymas funded ALL the causes that Castaway Kids, Club Deportivo, SBPA, the Yacht Club,  and others fund. But it isn't. So people have stepped in. If you don't want to step in, then step out. If you dont agree with the goals and the amounts requested, DONT SERVE AND DONT DONATE.

But dont impede. 

I feel that any goals a committee might come up with will be beneficial ones. If they aren't, or they are self-serving, they're not likely to get approved. 

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Hook wrote: THE PLAN is supposed to come from this process that the Comisario has initiated on the message boards. The first part of THE PLAN is requesting the formation of an advisory panel. After that, establishing goals and soliciting donations becomes part of THE PLAN.

I'm with Bart on this. Lead, follow or get out of the way! If you dont want to be part of the solution, dont be part of the problem by bickering and giving others the idea that San Carlos can't work together for common goals. This town has shown, time and time again, that it CAN work together on goals. 

But dont impede. 

I feel that any goals a committee might come up with will be beneficial ones. If they aren't, or they are self-serving, they're not likely to get approved. 

i truly believe these where ruben's intentions!!

the problem is baca and gadsby have not listened to any one and have proceeded with their own agenda!

i for one will be willing to donate my "sweat equity" and once i see a professional sound approach i would be willing to donate financially!

there are many engineers, bankers, businessmen in our community but consulting people such a urban engineers is the proper and correct way to go! 

Last edited on Fri Sep 29th, 2017 02:08 am by frankie

Ron & Karen
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Almost everyone believes that the needs of San Carlos should be identified - so please, please participate. Even the Mayor of G cannot ignore a reasonable analysis of San Carlos. Even though no funds will be volunteered (done this exercise before) by San Carlos residents - at least a good public documented effort of the needs will be on record. Good Luck

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Maybe we should call a town meeting and invited the press and governor of Sonora.

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comisario ruben pinto, you are an intelligent, caring and generous man!

i assume as comisario you have access to the "director of of urbano" for the municipality of guaymas, you may even have access to the "states director of urbano"

these are your FREE professionals, invite them and their teams to your restaurant, once they have all gathered drive them to all the infrastructural concerns, the roads, the sewer, the lighting, the water,ect; then have them for lunch and loosen them up with some of your great drinks!!!

now have them discuss the issues, ask for formal reports on each and everyone of the infrastructural issues!

when and if they return their reports, there is your start, for projected projects and financial goal setting!!

buenos suerte me amigo!!!

Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 06:09 pm by frankie

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johnmoore wrote: Jimmy, And I do expect a reply, an argument could be made, that while the 3 posters you mentioned do not agree on the implementation of the projects, there is no denial the 3 are proponents of the projects. So I claim that folks, such as you, are the problem, calling out people, who are well meaning, yet fail at being able to coordinate the effort. You might ask yourself, Hey Jimmy, what the heck have I done to contribute, in any way, other than negatively to this cause.HaHaHa. You are a Hoot. Strike a Nerve?

I have, over the past 30 years, done for the Community. Those days are over. I DO NOT INTEND TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING IN THE FUTURE.


All I did was note an observation and voice my opinion.....Lord knows there have been plenty of "Opinions" expressed on this Thread.


If I am wrong, I am wrong. If I am right, I am right, makes no difference to me. This is nothing more than a shabby Novela and I have a ticket to watch the show.



Last edited on Thu Sep 28th, 2017 06:25 pm by Jimmy

johnmoore
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Little bit of humor, Jimmy, I will accept being a "Hoot", if you accept being a "Bray"........LOL

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frankie wrote: comisario ruben pinto, you are an intelligent, caring and generous man!

i assume as comisario you have access to the "director of of urbano" for the municipality of guaymas, you may even have access to the "states director of urbano"

these are your FREE professionals, invite them and their teams to your restaurant, once they have all gathered drive them to all the infrastructural concerns, the roads, the sewer, the lighting, the water,ect; then have them for lunch and loosen them up with some of your great drinks!!!

now have them discuss the issues, ask for formal reports on each and everyone of the infrastructural issues!

when and if they return their reports, there is your start, for projected projects and financial goal setting!!

buenos suerte me amigo!!!

They at G+ city management have quite a few projects already done for SC, pavement,public lighting, etc.. I even had some at my files from some yrs ago; what makes me sick is that they have not even inquire at Urban development what they have as documented projects to make at SC, nor have the common sense of putting that before asking for donations. Like you say is the cart before the horses. Any serious effort to take us Out of the current state needs to be a crystal clear, common sense plan, and then money can be requested...Scams have happened in many dimensions at SC made by all nationalities, conflictive profiles involved in the comisario intention and his lack of systemic approach diminishes formality on the request, Sorry to say that but I will immediately walk away of any solicitation with last names well known in the town...the local authority must understand that the community is sensible to scams and must be transparent in any effort to improve.

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how much are they spending on lookout mirador in san carlos maybe some of that should have been spent for the locals instead of the tourists

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San Carlos - Pueblo Mágico

Maybe it's time to tell the 3,4,5 governments involved that we aren't one.

Get them involved with the sewage at least.

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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: how much are they spending on lookout mirador in san carlos maybe some of that should have been spent for the locals instead of the tourists
Man, that's a great point. Same goes for the fountain. 

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Sorry, but no cigar on that one. Both the fountain and the Mirador are privately owned and funded. Maintenance on the Blvd. is performed by City workers but paid for by the namesake. There is supposed to be some State participation on the Mirador, but most definitely nothing from the city.

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Richard Baca wrote: I totally agree Bart, and all that has been responded to. It's clear as where to contribute. Are you in? It's time to get it on. The smart ones got it, the dumb ones can wallow in their own.
we dumb ones are laughing now!!

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Rueben, I have a question for you.

You knew from the beginning that you would never have a budget what so ever for San Carlos. By the time you were Illegally appointed Comisario the budget was already set for San Carlos. Which by the way is around 9 million pesos this year.

My question to you is why did you bother to accept the Dedazo appointment? Did you really believe that Lorenzo would give you any money at all to do anything at all here in this town?

Next Question.

Why did only invite gringos to the CEA meeting at Charly's Rock?

Did you ever request an accounting of where the 9 million pesos went?

http://sancarlos.tv/guaymas-probably-skimmed-close-to-3-million-pesos-from-san-carlos-comisario-budget-from-2012-2015/

As Comisario you could have accomplished a few things actually without any money. You could have become a thorn in the side of Lorenzo and actually exposed plenty of the Municipal corruption that still exists in Guaymas. You could have moved us along the road to being our own Municipo.

For the rest of you. The only solution for San Carlos is to form it's own Municipio. There is no other way for this town to move forward. It has been demonstrated year after year after year.

Yes San Carlos can be it's own Municipo. Regardless of what the naysayers will unlikely say. The only thing lacking is the will of the people.

Xicotencatl
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Vince Radice wrote: ...for the rest of you. The only solution for San Carlos is to form it's own Municipio. There is no other way for this town to move forward. It has been demonstrated year after year after year.

Yes San Carlos can be it's own Municipo. Regardless of what the naysayers will unlikely say. The only thing lacking is the will of the people.

Or maybe many of Us are realistic of what cannot be achieved if SC becomes its own municipio...Vince , becoming a municipio IS NOT the only solution. In the few attempts I made to approach some of you that claimed that SC collected over 189 Millions of pesos  to learn where that figure came from I only got evasives and populist answers.
Even worse they came with stories of managing a "city" with no elected cabildo, no political parties involved in elections, elections? This is not EL Che Guevara town, please, study history and especially what other communities have done to balance and control the municipal powers before pretending create the republic of San Carlos.


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Please explain to me the solution because the way I see it. There are only a few thousand voters here in San Carlos compared to Tens of thousands of voters in Guaymas.

How is it you believe that Guaymas needs to pay attention to San Carlos when who ever wins the Mayoral election in Guaymas does not need not one single vote from San Carlos.

Please explain the "solution" to me that does not involve San Carlos being it's own Municipo because I have lived her for almost 30 years and nothing has changed.

You are kidding yourself if you think that Guaymas will ever give San Carlos more than a tiny fraction of what it pays in taxes. And please don't give me that same old tired response that we have not proved how much we pay.

Do some research yourself and you will find the truth.

I don't care anymore. San Carlos will continue to rot because of citizen apathy. Did you check out the link I posted?

That is how much money Otto extorted from San Carlos during his time as Mayor. Do you think it is any different now?

So please explain to me the solution?

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Vince says:

1. Rubén Pinto was illegally appointed Comisario, NOT TRUE because the appointment is the Mayor's prerogative, with the approval of the City Council (the Cabildo), like it or not! Let's see who's next...

2. He further says: "I don't care anymore. San Carlos will continue to rot because of citizen apathy. Did you check out the link I posted?"

Yes I did check it out Vince, and it's a link to your own blog. Be that as it may though, San Carlos doesn't suffer from "citizen" apathy", it suffers from lack of citizens! That's because most of the properties are foreign owned in trust and most aren't even here but sporadically. Though we number over 7,000 or more (3,500 or so couples and probably more), almost ALL cannot vote BUT, we ALL pay our property taxes! The few voting citizens we have are just simply not enough to even warrant a "regidor" seat, (City Council voice). Right, not even that! So though I agree with Vince that we should be our own Municipio, I just don't see how it could made to happen with the few voting citizens that we have!

Now, though I don't have the right to vote, I do have the right to hold my property taxes in my own escrow, and I will! It may not be a "voice" per se, but it will get my message across!

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 07:05 am by

Xicotencatl
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Vince Radice wrote: Please explain to me the solution because the way I see it. There are only a few thousand voters here in San Carlos compared to Tens of thousands of voters in Guaymas. True, much less voters in SC than Guaymas, BUT you will be surprised of how many "Guaymas Rulers" lives in SC OR EVEN WORSE how much money is invested from Guaymas community in SC .  Baca statement is false, the majority of SC population is Mexican citizens,however true with a high proportion of alien residents.  

How is it you believe that Guaymas needs to pay attention to San Carlos when who ever wins the Mayoral election in Guaymas does not need not one single vote from San Carlos. Any good city manager takes care of all, it is a populist view to see everything just in votes, too simple optics, see NOB politics ( actually NOB chaos right now) and you can see the big mistake , the problem is attitude and therefore missing the right path to get support. some of SC Mexican population is very influential in Guaymas today politics, that is what counts.

Please explain the "solution" to me that does not involve San Carlos being it's own Municipo because I have lived her for almost 30 years and nothing has changed. By all means but please stop giving orders, I have lived in Mexico most of my life and have seen a lot of change and even praise to be part of it, with 5 cents only...first you explain to me were the 189 million pesos SC income generation comes from or is composed, if not it means you tried to lure people to "El Dorado" with false statements, Why You cannot give a straight answer on that?. HINT being radical and using the sabre makes being received also with a sabre ..of the other guy.

You are kidding yourself if you think that Guaymas will ever give San Carlos more than a tiny fraction of what it pays in taxes. And please don't give me that same old tired response that we have not proved how much we pay. Well sorry you have to prove your sayings before I consider maintain a serious discussion with you, If You can't sustain what you are using to lure people to your very own idea, I will be kidding myself discussing anything "serious" with you.

Do some research yourself and you will find the truth. Please by all means you are invited also to research and learn what other communities in the country has done to get what they need from their city government, in such a clever way that some of them even impose agenda to the city hall...HINT again, all is in the way of asking, the attitude, to make SC "independent" under a radical, utopian ideology maybe is not the rest of us style or wish, Sorry. If you do the research I may dig on the numbers , but again your  group stated them, please share with us !

I don't care anymore. San Carlos will continue to rot because of citizen apathy. Did you check out the link I posted?  yes I just read the link, don't care if You don't care, that in fact, to forget about dreams of "independence" can get SC closer to their city, find solutions together and avoid rotting, except maybe you and your pals; which may not like such approach.

That is how much money Otto extorted from San Carlos during his time as Mayor. Do you think it is any different now? The current mayor is not even Otto's  same party or philosophy .. which left him with 8 BILLION pesos debt to deal with... how could you expect He can manage a city? He has been put to manage a debt !

So please explain to me the solution? Will be pleased whenever you start giving more answers that questions, yes I may share some of them. I will wait and promise to be open to your kind numbers breakdown and research of other cities mayors behavior with  counterbalance of strong willing, well organized  communities 
PD PLEASE BACA prove that there are mainly much more alien residents with HARD DATA than Mexican citizens in SC... I am beginning to believe that I am a true lesser form of life, everybody commands and gives numbers and statements given as true , but never sustain in the  way they ask the other to do so,..ups.. forgot I was referring to Mr. Baca...guten abend !  

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 08:33 am by Xicotencatl

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XICO & VINCE, i see two bright minds who care and want the best for san carlos!!! the two of you have you have expended GREAT amounts of time researching and gathering data!! 

see the similarities the both of you have, expand on them, come to a meeting of minds!! create an agenda with the two of your thoughts that the majority here foreigner or national can follow!!!

the similarities are stronger than your differences!

i hope the two of you see this as constructive advice!
good luck and if i can be of any help the both of you know how to reach me!!!

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 08:44 am by frankie

Xicotencatl
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frankie wrote: XICO & VINCE, i see two bright minds who care and want the best for san carlos!!! the two of you have you have expended GREAT amounts of time researching and gathering data!! 

see the similarities the both of you have, expand on them, come to a meeting of minds!! create an agenda with the two of your thoughts that the majority here foreigner or national can follow!!!

the similarities are stronger than your differences!

i hope the two of you see this as constructive advice!
good luck and if i can be of any help the both of you know how to reach me!!!


Always honored by your invitation Frank. 

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Richard Baca wrote: Delaying my property tax payments is not illegal and conveys a strong message. Hey, they'll get even more money from me because of the late fee! So as for me, that's what I'm gonna do.
some simple questions for you mr. baca, 
* how many real properties do you have in your name??
* what is the total amount you pay in property taxes??
if your are going to try to lead, lead through example!!!

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And there you have it Xicotencatl. You can't tell us how to solve any problems in San Carlos because you doubt that San Carlos pays well over 100 million pesos each year to Guaymas.

A number that has been established by Victor Parra Maldonado from "Guyamas Tu Puerto" confirmed to me by Pancho Alcantar, ex Comisario, as well as Alex Clavo, and many others.

No worries Xicotencatl, you can continue to swim in circles as long as you please. I already know the solution and it is all about investment in infrastructure as well as enforcement of current zoning laws coupled with creation of new rules and laws to strengthen unique coastal communities such as San Carlos. Investment comes from tax revenue and a MUNICIPIOS ability to petition for state and federal funding. San Carlos as a COMISARIA of course can not petition for anything.

Citizen apathy will prevent any of that from happening.

I would be happy to meet you and Frankie for lunch anytime to discuss it in person.

Last edited on Tue Oct 10th, 2017 03:58 pm by Vince Radice

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Vince, let me show you a picture of my friend Julio Avalos from a suburb of Mexico City. He is one of the highest ethical, humanist lawyer of the country which recently was elected president of the honor and justice commission (internal affairs) of the security forces of that city. This morning he decided to start wearing the uniform of the corp. He evaluates and judges (which he doesn't have to)  , to give a clear message that being now one of them,to put himself in the frontline and share not only the uniform but also security activities and risk of the force in the field shows his commitment to change the force for improvement. He is associated by police officers to be "against"them , He wants to transform the force by becoming one of them, Got the message?

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Vince Radice wrote: And there you have it Xicotencatl. You can't tell us how to solve any problems in San Carlos because you doubt that San Carlos pays well over 100 million pesos each year to Guaymas. I doubt on the reliability of the numbers disclosed by your group...Of course I can add suggestions but to the appropriate audience, you need to build your credibility.

A number that has been established by Victor Parra Maldonado from "Guyamas Tu Puerto" confirmed to me by Pancho Alcantar, ex Comisario, as well as Alex Clavo, and many others. This is numbers , not a tribal story tell.. Just show the calculation sheet with proper references and that's it, no need to say anything else.

No worries Xicotencatl, you can continue to swim in circles as long as you please. I already know the solution and it is all about investment in infrastructure as well as enforcement of current zoning laws coupled with creation of new rules and laws to strengthen unique coastal communities such as San Carlos. Investment comes from tax revenue and a MUNICIPIOS ability to petition for state and federal funding. San Carlos as a COMISARIA of course can not petition for anything. BUT San Carlos Comisaria can learn from San Jose De Guaymas Comisario, who just last week downloaded over 230,000 USD for his community, WORKING with his city management. Your comment is very funny, Just thinking in making independent San Carlos is chasing your own tail, which in fact not only makes you swim in circles, you also walk on earth moving likewise, not all of Us moves like that. a straight objective can make you move upwards , not in circles.

Citizen apathy will prevent any of that from happening. depends on how and where do you motivate citizens to go, I will show a MAJOR degree of apathy for chasing utopias. 

I would be happy to meet you and Frankie for lunch anytime to discuss it in person.  As long as we can workout a realistic agenda for SC and leave radicalism in the door Yes We can.

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Richard Baca wrote: I totally agree Bart, and all that has been responded to. It's clear as where to contribute. Are you in? It's time to get it on. The smart ones got it, the dumb ones can wallow in their own.
since you state clearly of "the smart ones" and know of the their contributions, WHERE IS THE MONEY BACA????????????

Xicotencatl
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frankie wrote: Richard Baca wrote: I totally agree Bart, and all that has been responded to. It's clear as where to contribute. Are you in? It's time to get it on. The smart ones got it, the dumb ones can wallow in their own.
since you state clearly of "the smart ones" and know of the their contributions, WHERE IS THE MONEY BACA????????????

UNA RAYA MAS AL TIGRE...

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Man, had Ruben just thought of playing dress-up he could have succeeded. Bet he wishes he had thought of that. :P
Xicotencatl wrote: Vince, let me show you a picture of my friend Julio Avalos... This morning he decided to start wearing the uniform of the corp.

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with Ruben, there have left 4 Public Servants the Mayor of Guaymas.

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Xicotencatl wrote: Vince Radice wrote:
No worries Xicotencatl, you can continue to swim in circles as long as you please. I already know the solution and it is all about investment in infrastructure as well as enforcement of current zoning laws coupled with creation of new rules and laws to strengthen unique coastal communities such as San Carlos. Investment comes from tax revenue and a MUNICIPIOS ability to petition for state and federal funding. San Carlos as a COMISARIA of course can not petition for anything. BUT San Carlos Comisaria can learn from San Jose De Guaymas Comisario, who just last week downloaded over 230,000 USD for his community, WORKING with his city management. Your comment is very funny, Just thinking in making independent San Carlos is chasing your own tail, which in fact not only makes you swim in circles, you also walk on earth moving likewise, not all of Us moves like that. a straight objective can make you move upwards , not in circles.
Well perhaps you should illuminate more on this "downloaded" sum of 230,000 USD? Is that a loan? Is that free money from state or federal government? After that perhaps you could have mentioned this to our wonderful Comisario and led him down the path to funding some projects in San Carlos. Be serious, there is far more funding available to a Municipo than a Comisaria and you clearly know that. You are being totally disingenuous with your comment. 
Citizen apathy will prevent any of that from happening. depends on how and where do you motivate citizens to go, I will show a MAJOR degree of apathy for chasing utopias. 
 Just out of curiosity how much community organizing have you done here in this community? 

Explain to me how the idea of making a Comisaria into a Municipo is some kine of Utopia? No one in the group of people that I have worked with for several years has ever mentioned anything about a "Utopia"


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The reason to make SC it's own municipio is so that SC could control its own property tax revenue. Right now it all goes to Guaymas and we get minimal police and street lighting, and garbage collection. And we get very little street maintenance.

Water and sewer are under the State water commission and electric is under the Federal commission.

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Anyone who believes that converting San Carlos to it's own Municipio with be a panacea for all of our problems is kidding themselves. Property taxes are chump change in the grand scheme of things here.

Having our own court house and our own Judges and Ministero Publicos will not change the nepotistic and dysfunctional and corrupt judicial system here.

https://mexicovoices.blogspot.mx/2017/08/mexico-justice-system-judiciarys.html

https://mexicovoices.blogspot.mx/2014/07/mexico-justice-system-judicial-family.html

Being in control of the Municipal police will not change the fact that the police will still try to extort money from Tourists and in general are often responsible for crimes committed in this town. (A good friend just last week was stopped by local cops on three different occasions) After they couldn't extort him the tried to get him to buy two San Carlos police stickers at the inflated price of 400 pesos.

Being our own Municipio means that who ever controls the government here would have a tremendous amount of money to skim off the top and put into their pockets. It is the Mexican way in politics.

https://mexicovoices.blogspot.mx/2017/04/mexicos-schizophrenic-government.html?q=POlice+corruption+municipal+level

But there would be no more complaining about Guyamas controlling San Carlos and the corrupt government officials that will come with being our own Municipio will be our corrupt officials and no one else.

Last edited on Wed Oct 11th, 2017 05:13 pm by Vince Radice

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Hahahaha,  Instead of having the Corrupt Officials 18 miles away, they would only be 2 miles away.


Still, I agree with SC as a stand alone Municipality.

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Vince Radice wrote: Xicotencatl wrote: Vince Radice wrote:
No worries Xicotencatl, you can continue to swim in circles as long as you please. I already know the solution and it is all about investment in infrastructure as well as enforcement of current zoning laws coupled with creation of new rules and laws to strengthen unique coastal communities such as San Carlos. Investment comes from tax revenue and a MUNICIPIOS ability to petition for state and federal funding. San Carlos as a COMISARIA of course can not petition for anything. BUT San Carlos Comisaria can learn from San Jose De Guaymas Comisario, who just last week downloaded over 230,000 USD for his community, WORKING with his city management. Your comment is very funny, Just thinking in making independent San Carlos is chasing your own tail, which in fact not only makes you swim in circles, you also walk on earth moving likewise, not all of Us moves like that. a straight objective can make you move upwards , not in circles.
Well perhaps you should illuminate more on this "downloaded" sum of 230,000 USD? Is that a loan? Is that free money from state or federal government? After that perhaps you could have mentioned this to our wonderful Comisario and led him down the path to funding some projects in San Carlos. Be serious, there is far more funding available to a Municipo than a Comisaria and you clearly know that. You are being totally disingenuous with your comment.Illuminate yourself !! I know you speak spanish, google it and read about that in the news, they are Federal funds granted with no payback, be serious, let me see your spreadsheet about SC income, promoted as main argument by your group to be "independent" before you continue under a  self nominated imperator role to asking answers or giving orders to anybody, what I did was suggesting the comisario to seek for advice on how to search for these funds on a public way right here, even to learn from San Jose comisario about that ( you can do the same) before he left and before San Jose de Guaymas comisario obtained the funds WORKING,again , TOGETHER with the city of Guaymas.  explain your logic on why they have to be confronted, BUT first your numbers sir , please.   
Citizen apathy will prevent any of that from happening. depends on how and where do you motivate citizens to go, I will show a MAJOR degree of apathy for chasing utopias. 
 Just out of curiosity how much community organizing have you done here in this community? 
Much more or maybe less than My lack of interest of flashing that to you... whatever work I have done on the benefit of Guaymas benefits SC and also have made some work for the town, The people who know me personally knows How far and committed I have been on supporting the town AND Decline graciously to disclose that to you until your calculations breakdown on the SC income  are published and substantiated.. THERE IS NO need to tell you about my social service to get the right to confront your ideas. OR is this a requisite to  lay down my opinion against your utopia of being independent at SC ?? Explain to me how the idea of making a Comisaria into a Municipo is some kine of Utopia? No one in the group of people that I have worked with for several years has ever mentioned anything about a "Utopia"

After We get your income for SC estimation , preferably in a public way on this forum I would be glad to continue discussions with you,IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SUBSTANTIATED IDEA OF THE REAL INCOME OF SC IT IS AN UTOPIA.  Just one comment, If you would be able to eat every word you've said, have written or transmitted here or through your media would that make  your soul shine  with nobility and good will or it will get poisoned by hate and intolerance? 


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odwyerpw wrote: Man, had Ruben just thought of playing dress-up he could have succeeded. Bet he wishes he had thought of that. :P
Xicotencatl wrote: Vince, let me show you a picture of my friend Julio Avalos... This morning he decided to start wearing the uniform of the corp.

X2

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Bullshipper wrote: odwyerpw wrote: Man, had Ruben just thought of playing dress-up he could have succeeded. Bet he wishes he had thought of that. :P
Xicotencatl wrote: Vince, let me show you a picture of my friend Julio Avalos... This morning he decided to start wearing the uniform of the corp.

X2

lim n ----> oo  (X!)



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