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 Moderated by: bartmanaz Topic closed
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Richard Baca
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http://elportaldelanoticia.mx/noticias/local/2126-matan-a-dos-hombres-en-san-carlos

Two dead, one wounded in the vicinity of Rescate San Carlos. This happened a couple of hours ago, (it's now 8:25 PM).

Last edited on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 04:28 am by

johnmoore
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https://opinionsonora.com/2017/08/24/los-interceptan-les-abren-las-puertas-y-les-disparan/

JZ
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Of the afternoon of this Thursday in San Carlos, Nuevo Guaymas, on The scenic boulevard 'Manlio Fabio Beltrones Rivera', where two People were shot, leaving one more injured, in whose Scene of the personal crime of the Attorney General's Office Finds the corresponding proceedings. The vehicle in which they traveled is a Toyota, van type, gray color, itself That in front of the Oxxo store of the sector Crestón, was intercepted by a Pick-up truck, which closed the way. The hit men got out of their car, went to the Toyota, the line 'Sienna', in gray, opened the driver's door and the door Sliding, of the same left side and began to shoot to its occupants. Two of them were dead inside, while the wounded was Aided by rescue personnel San Carlos, who, on board one of the His ambulances took him to the Guadalupe Pavilion, where he was Hospitalized, hospital facilities that are heavily guarded By no less than 30 members of different police corporations. At the moment the identity of the two people has not been revealed Deceased, nor that of the injured. (Later more information)[code]

frankiej
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the shooting started at solimar, and ended in front of the OXXO. i was there after the fact with the comisario, we where at the drug store.

Hook
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It was bound to happen again. There are just too many fringe narcos that vacation and party here. And murders are once again on the rise in Mexico, after a downturn from the high water mark in 2011.

Still, I think that is only 6-7 in the 9 years I have been in San Carlos. I'm counting the Tufesa bus driver (not actually in San Carlos proper), the guy at MSC, the guy who was undercover for some police agency, the guy by the OXXO on the LDM road, the guy at Semana Santa about 5 years ago, the guy out at Bahia Esmeralda and the running gun battle on Beltrones between the Pilar/Delfin turnoff and the freeway. I think one or two were killed in that one. I think that last one was the one where a father came after some guy who had diddled his daughter or something.

Not counting the bodies that were dumped out by Nacapule. I think that was 2-3.

Pretty low rate for a busy town like San Carlos, really. Not exactly Chicago;  which, BTW, might not make the top ten Mexican towns for murders, per capita. 

Of the 50 world cities with a population of at least 300,000, Chicago doesnt make the list for per capita murders. Of the 50, an astounding 42 are in Latin America. Mexico has 8 cities. The US has four; St Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit. Still no Chicago. 

This is for cities that are in countries that are not considered "at war".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

Vince Radice
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Two more people were murdered in the Ranchitos at essentially the same time. So that is 4 dead in one night.

So when is our new Comissario gonna get us some security cameras on the main road? Right after he fixes the water problema!! LOL

Dozens have disappeared in Guaymas this summer, it was only a matter of time before we had another shoot out here.

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camera's would not have changed last nights tragic events!

Last edited on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 02:28 pm by frankiej

Hook
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frankiej wrote: camera's would not have changed last nights tragic events!
Very true. It takes a police force that is willing to DO something with what a camera captures.

Anything more on the murders in the Ranchitos, Vince? 

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Any more on either of the murders, the who and the why's? Are the victims locals? Are the shooters local? Many questions..

Hook
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There is a follow up article on Opinionsonora.com, that appears to identify two of the victims on Beltrones. Also, more info about the vehicle. Not the getaway one, of course.


https://opinionsonora.com/2017/08/25/vivia-en-san-jose-de-guaymas-uno-de-los-ejecutados-esta-tarde/

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Anyone know why the Opinion articles cannot be copied, so to translate. My Spanish is not that good..any help??

Hook
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I cant copy it either. But I use Chrome as a browser and it automatically translates the article.


One of the dead is from San Jose de Guaymas. The injured person is from Hermosillo. The vehicle of the victims was reported stolen in June from HMO and was using plates from a different vehicle that was reported stolen in April. State police is speculating that this could be an "adjustment of accounts" between narco gangs, or so the translation goes.


That's pretty much the gist of the most recent article.


The murder in the Ranchitos appears to be VERY close to my house. Possibly the house that used to be owned by Jack Biffle or the two next to it, going towards the sea. Those are the only ones I can recall that are occupied. Of course, an unoccupied structure might be more preferred by kidnappers. Cut and paste translation.


San Carlos.- At this time, the judicial authorities continue carrying out the corresponding procedures on the finding of two more bodies in a house of the sector 'Ranchitos' of San Carlos, people who were executed to shots by a group of hired assassins.
This happened in the street 'A' between the Second and Third avenues, of the already mentioned sector, in this tourist police station of the municipality of Guaymas.
The bodies were found on the porch of the house, with several bullet wounds.
In the exterior of the house is a ton truck with the 'intermittent' lights on.
Staff of the Ministerial Investigation Agency Crimimal (AMIC), PESP, Municipal Police and military, arrived at the place since midnight, when they received the complaint about these executions, and entered the house after a search warrant granted by a Judge.
One woman, female, arrived before the Public Ministry Agency to report that an armed command had 'lifted' her and had taken her to that address, where she was kept deprived of her liberty.
He said that at one point several individuals wearing military attire arrived at the house, who began firing those in custody at the security house, immediately after escaping, making the woman escape from the place where he was being held.
So far the identity of the two executed is unknown, with four people deprived of life in less than 12 hours in this tourist center.
A unit of the funeral service has arrived to this house that will be in charge of the transfer of the bodies to the Forensic Service for the corresponding autopsies of law.

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Jorge Alberto N, 40 yrs of Guaymans with previous drug and gun convictions Oscar Tadeo N 27 yrs, previous assault charges, were named as victims in the Sienna

Hook
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Hey, Bullshipper, why do they just give an N for one of the surnames?

Hook
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Found this consolidating link to online newspapers in Mexico.

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/mexico.htm

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post #12 hook, i heard on the radio the same report, it is also written the same in the press!
am understanding that this may have been a police or military vigilante squad?

Hook
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Yeah, that involvement of persons with paramilitary uniforms is very disconcerting. If it was a legit military operation that freed even one hostage, I would think there would have been a press conference about it.


The translation is very convoluted.

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I am glad that they freed the kidnapped woman. I don't care if it was done by a military "vigilante" squad of if bad guys were cleaning other bad guys. Lots of rumors will be thrown around, yes even in the press. We may not ever find out. It may be in our best interests not to have a press conference if it was a military operation. Maybe they will think twice before kidnapping someone else if they don't tell everyone their tactics or who contacted them.

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police/military vigilante squad is how the zetas where formed!
this is a democracy! 

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In all the noise about this, one has to bear in mind that this is all revenge among themselves; among drug dealers and maybe up to the cartel level. The murders on the Boulevard look like a fight among drug dealers and the one in the Ranchitos appears more coordinated with "uniformed" men in a 1 ton truck. Nevertheless, other than the scare, no foreigners were in any way singled out. But just wait now; our Illustrious Consulate in Hermosillo will put out an alert to Americans Re: Violence in San Carlos! Watch out!! Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. In any event, as long as anyone is not involved, I don't thing there's anything to worry about.

Hook
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I was wrong about the Ranchitos murder location, with respect to the old Biffle house. If the news accounts are true, it is farther south on A. There are many residences on that section. It is the road with the ladies making tortillas out of a stand and the road with the horrible eyesore of trash and mechanized parts at the dump truck driver's house. It is one block west of the street where Abarrotes Alamos Super Tienda is located.


I'm beginning to wonder if these events weren't related. No time listed on the Ranchitos murders.

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Well put, Richard.

Hook
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Richard Baca wrote: In all the noise about this, one has to bear in mind that this is all revenge among themselves; among drug dealers and maybe up to the cartel level. The murders on the Boulevard look like a fight among drug dealers and the one in the Ranchitos appears more coordinated with "uniformed" men in a 1 ton truck. Nevertheless, other than the scare, no foreigners were in any way singled out. But just wait now; our Illustrious Consulate in Hermosillo will put out an alert to Americans Re: Violence in San Carlos! Watch out!! Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. In any event, as long as anyone is not involved, I don't thing there's anything to worry about.
You dont have to be singled out, if there are firearms exchanges between vehicles on a street like F, in the Ranchitos, which is what King George reported. Or along Beltrones. These werent shootouts at late-night, early-morning hours when cartels are supposedly at work. However, the odds are very great that this might happen. 

I dont know what you would have the consulate do, Richard. They are damned if they do, and damned if they dont keep their citizen appraised of the dangers. More information is good. It is incredible how the murders have increased in the Los Cabos area, as well as a new surge in Tijuana/Ensenada/Rosarito. People need to know about that. The stats bear it out. 

Actually, I dont worry much about being shot by a fringe cartel guy. Kidnapping is a scarier threat to me;  especially if one appears to have the means to pay a large ransom. Almost every gringo in San Carlos qualifies, in that respect. Kidnappings are on the rise, again, in Mexico. The average of about 75 Americans being kidnapped each year in Mexico, continues. Approximately 100 Americans are murdered in Mexico each year. Those numbers are actually pretty low, when you consider the number of American tourists and ex-pats who are in Mexico each year. So, our odds are pretty good. Certainly some of the murdered were probably involved in the drug trade.


But I am not aware of any kidnappings having occurred in San Carlos, involving gringos. We really have been a very safe town. I dont know why that wouldnt continue, even with these incidents. 

Last edited on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 06:29 pm by Hook

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I drove by the van last night minutes after the incident. No police or ambulance had arrived. The driver side door was open with the bodies inside. It's just a matter of time before innocent bystanders get caught in the cross fire.

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There is NO where on this earth, that one is not subject to being collateral damage.

Reeltime
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I agree with you that we're all subject to collateral damage anywhere, anytime. The fact that these incidents (4 that I recall) happen on a well traveled road during daylight hours certainly increases the probability that some one innocent is going to be involved.

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johnmoore wrote: There is NO where on this earth, that one is not subject to being collateral damage.
True, but there are better odds in some places than others. I'd feel safer from collateral damage in the Pitcairn Islands than I would in San Carlos. Safer in San Carlos than in Damascus.

I go through life making decisions based on probabilities. It is not probable that, as an individual, I might become collateral damage to a shootout in San Carlos. Possible, yes, but not probable.

Just as it is not probable that I will catch a dorado over 30 lbs in the Sea of Cortez again. 

Especially when I'm not there.................;)


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Friday morning man found bound and wounded in Ranchitos.
http://189.198.239.242/index.php/portada/item/3247-encuentran-a-hombre-herido-y-esposado-en-san-carlos

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Above Article: handcuffed behind his back was found Friday morning in the Ranchito sector of San Carlos, a few hours after they found two people executed in the same sector.

This is Alonso NM, nicknamed "El Alonso", domiciled in the Gulf of California colony, who was found in Lot 125, Third Street and Third Avenue, Ranchito Sector San Carlos.

It was at 7:30 this Friday when elements of the Municipal Police aboard unit 148, had knowledge about a person injured and tied.

When they went to the abovementioned house, they found the Alonso with wounds on various parts of the body and handcuffed hands to the back.

Immediately he was taken to a city hospital on the edge of Unit 203 of San Carlos Rescue.

As reported, previously in the same Ranchito sector, at dawn this Friday they found two people executed in a house located on the street A, between Second and Third avenues.

johnmoore
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Hook, I totally agree with your post #27.

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i was an innocent bystander, send lawyers, guns and money, dad get me out of this!

johnmoore
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Frankie, the noun describes you, the adjective, does not..lol,jajajajajajaj

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it was meant as a metaphor, they are lyrics from a warren zevon song! 

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Things sure aren't like they use to be - isn't that right all you old timer expats?  I understand that you all have a stake in San Carlos - but your arguments of rationalization about the security risks in San Carlos still amaze me.  Quartersplash wanted risk estimates a while ago and you boys down played the threats because you had been there for years and still felt safe.  Better check you southern pacific coast neighbor Acapulco (Mexico's murder capitol) - the big cartels are being replaced by smaller ones and gangs.  Plus the Cancun area is now pin pointed as extremely dangerous.  So, I don't blame you for talking a safe game since you are already there - but geez - at least be a little realistic about what really happens in the nation that you have chosen in which to live.  All you can really say is that SC is not yet a bulls eye.  Read up on Acapulco - they are not "just killing themselves".

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post #34 shear ignorance on your part! look at all the major cities in the USA with a population of over 500,000. all have high murder rates multiply those homicides times that number of cities and it will be horrifying to you!
if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!

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     About post 34... Yes, I'm not too worried about life in S.C. I live in Tucson, I can show you areas you shouldn't be at night. Phoenix is worse and so is every big metropolis in the states.
   I leave my keys in my car when parked at a business, and walk anywhere I want at night without a fear. Try that in Detroit, Chicago, La, Atlanta, ect.
   If you look for trouble you will find it. Don't go looking for drugs or showing off your wealth and you will just fine down here.

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HAHAHAHAHA


It never fails. The Village Idiots immediately lash out at anyone who, (after multiple murders and Kidnappings and Lord knows what else) Might mention that there is Violence here in River City.


As always The #1 Response is the good ole Smoke and Mirrors----"But look at Detroit-Chicago-__________ Fill in the Blank. Asking folks to Look elsewhere and away from the Violence! 


Face the Facts and get on with your lives and stop showing yourselves to be the Deniers you seem to be. For goodness sake This little place only has about 3,000 people living here 4 murders for that many people in one day is a Lot.  (I think they figure by murders per 100,000).


I think that YOU should use whatever coping rationalization method that makes you feel safe and secure and stop trying to convince others that their fears are not justified. Just let others make up their own minds about what is an acceptable risk to them and their loved ones.


It 's a dangerous world to live in now days.

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 03:43 am by Jimmy

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As a single woman, I moved to San Carlos 8 years ago and live here full time.  Had never been south of the border from the USA before!

Felt VERY safe then, and even after the 9 or 10 or so murders here in town since then, still feel SOOOO much safer here than anywhere in the USA.  I love my life here!

If you are afraid to be in MX, stay in the USA with the random mass shootings at movie theaters, shopping malls, churches, schools, etc, by the psychos.  I would rather be collateral damage here than a victim of the mentally ill up north.

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Here is a Comforting Video of the shootings---You will not believe this! Watch to the end. Its amazing no innocent bystanders were hit.


https://www.facebook.com/FM105Guaymas/videos/1564748146925902/

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 04:21 am by Jimmy

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Someone on the other bd said that they don't just come here to do their killing. They Live Here Among Us!

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HEY ALL YOU FEAR MONGERS! STOP and think for a second or two... Were any innocent bystanders hurt in all of this? NO, and not likely that there would be in a targeted hit! For cryin out loud(!), if you're not involved in the illicit drug trade, just chill out!! Ain't nuthin gonna happen to your silly worried arse!!

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All is so true, I'm just going to tough it out here in paradise.

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Jimmy wrote;

I think that YOU should use whatever coping rationalization method that makes you feel safe and secure and stop trying to convince others that their fears are not justified. Just let others make up their own minds about what is an acceptable risk to them and their loved ones.


It 's a dangerous world to live in now days.
my post #35 and jimmy's post # 37 are 2 very different and both valid opinions!

the video shows 3 vehicles of armed battling factions! one the armed victims in the grey van and one the assassins in the white car, one a dark vehicle shows 3 armed individuals.
if you watch carefully you'll see the the puff of dust when the white vehicle is leaving this is a round hitting the asphalt, coming from the dark car, it also appears at least several other rounds where shot from the dark car!

collateral damage IS a real possibility!!! that is why i wrote post #31 !!!!!

"JIMMY IS CORRECT" 
IT IS A DANGEROUS WORLD TO LIVE IN NOW DAYS!!!


Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 04:02 pm by frankiej

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¨HEY ALL YOU FEAR MONGERS! STOP and think for a second or two... Were any innocent bystanders hurt in all of this? NO, and not likely that there would be in a targeted hit! For cryin out loud(!), if you're not involved in the illicit drug trade, just chill out!! Ain't nuthin gonna happen to your silly worried arse!!¨  Richard Baca post 41.

Let´s not be stupid. The fact that innocent bystanders were not killed or injured in this incident when there was a high speed chase with bullets flying is merely good luck. I love San Carlos and will be back in a couple of months but this particular incident was significantly more serious than we have seen in the past. Unfortunately, I saw no more than cursory coverage in the local press so who knows what is really going on.

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 06:21 pm by maryt

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mary, you are correct!!! pure luck there was no collateral injuries!

the HIT on the grey van appears targeted, as richard comments, they probably used a pistol!!

but i count at least 5 indiscriminate shots from long guns fired from the dark vehicle!
these long gun rounds have a trajectory of over a mile!!!!!!


Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 06:51 pm by frankiej

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We all agree, a horrible event. I believe the authorities are as curious as we all are, to what really transpired. In the video, the second car, going eastbound, with long guns, who were they? Why did the van stop where it did and allow the shooters to get them like fish in a barrel? How did the van end up where it did much further west? If they do not know, I am sure the authorities want to know....

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Hook, I don't doubt your numbers but wonder where you got the. I'd like to use the source as a reference if it's reputable.
The average of about 75 Americans being kidnapped each year in Mexico, continues. Approximately 100 Americans are murdered in Mexico each year. Those numbers are actually pretty low, when you consider the number of American tourists and ex-pats who are in Mexico each year. 

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 08:13 pm by stanbnv

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MARIGOT @ No. 38 REALLY gets it! RIGHT ON MARIGOT!

johnmoore, the sequence of events according to the employees at the OXXO is as follows: A pick-up truck stopped and blocked the van, (both headed East, not West); then a car pulled up beside the van and a perp got out and openned fire (probably with a pistol) at the driver and one in the passenger seat; then openned the van's slider and shot the one in the back seat. As they pulled away we see in the video, a black car stop on the West bound frontage and an obviously inexperienced shooter emerges with a semi-automatic rifle, and because he didn't have it "safed", he accidentally let a round go into the pavement (that's the puff of dust we see on the road), and then shoots a couple of semi-auto rounds at the fleeing car.

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 08:15 pm by

frankiej
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Richard Baca wrote:As they pulled away we see in the video, a black car stop on the West bound frontage and an obviously inexperienced shooter emerges with a semi-automatic rifle, and because he didn't have it "safed", he accidentally let a round go into the pavement (that's the puff of dust we see on the road), and then shoots a couple of semi-auto rounds at the fleeing car.


not exactly, the driver of the dark car, fires while still in the car!! you can clearly see the muzzle blast "door closed" prior to  exiting the car and shouldering the weapon! there where 2 other shooters in the dark car, one on the passenger side and one in the back seat. it appears they both fired!!!
these are the indiscriminate rounds that where fired!

Last edited on Sat Aug 26th, 2017 08:35 pm by frankiej

390pony
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This is interesting, I just came back from getting my scuba tanks refilled at El Mar, and I was passing Blackies on the frontage road, seven state police vehicles came down Beltrones--six pickup trucks and a sedan. I thought they were going to the police station, but the turned right and up the hill to the Bahia.

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pony, just now?

390pony
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About 30 minutes ago.

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stanbnv wrote: Hook, I don't doubt your numbers but wonder where you got the. I'd like to use the source as a reference if it's reputable.
The average of about 75 Americans being kidnapped each year in Mexico, continues. Approximately 100 Americans are murdered in Mexico each year. Those numbers are actually pretty low, when you consider the number of American tourists and ex-pats who are in Mexico each year. 

Here is the article I used. It was on Fox News web site, but the murder and kidnapping figures are from the US State Department. Fox News ran this at the time the US State Dept issued it's last warning before the most recent one of a few days ago. It cover the years 2013-15, which was actually a comparative lull in violent crime in Mexico, compared to 2009-2012 and 2016-2017. So, I believe one can extrapolate that the murder/kidnapping figures from that lull have remained the same OR PROBABLY INCREASED.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/01/20/us-renews-travel-warning-to-mexico-as-killings-americans-climb.html

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I think Sancarlos has no Problems with the violence going on. Sancarlos is protectet by al the Indiana Jones living there.

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A FACT in all this is that has escaped many of us is that apparently ALL of the victims as well as the perps WERE NOT, and are ARE NOT San Carlos Residents. It seems that these events were executed by visitors that came here to do their dirty work! I may be wrong, but none lived here and are not likely to be back anytime soon. Someone posted that, "they live among us". That may in fact be true, but these recent incidents appear to be have been executed by outsiders (to Carlos).

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i concur with richard, these guys where outsiders!

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The dead ones won't be back anytime soon!

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I think you have to consider that a great majority of 'Americans' killed in Mexico (100/yr), might be just citizens by documentation , involved with bad things, in the cartels, and are not tourists or 'American residents'. Just bad businessmen, or maybe some family affairs.
It seems that this is the time. Hey, it's hot, buggy, and humid anyhow. You should be somewhere cooler for a few more weeks! Maybe it's a prep for the harvest season, the bad guys are on vacation ( or think they are safe on vacation), or a summer of bad drug use just has the hit men at a boiling point this far into the summer. You shouldn't be outside anyhow right now. Your chances of dying to the elements and from skin cancer should be your main concerns.
If I have to fish any longer for juvenile dorado I'm going to put panties on and join Miss Jenner. Heard a good report from 30 out that might loosen my sack. I know I don't have to watch out for bullets there. 

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good one brian!

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I think most of us are too poor and a burden to kidnap anyhow. 

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Jimmie in your post number 39 that shows the video do you see the three people standing just on the other side of the van while the guys in the small car are shooting the 2 occupant in the van.  Now, those three people never move and stand there until after the black car starts shooting at the get away car then they run after it's all over.  They must have been tramatized or something.

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Or not to bright.....

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KIWI, It looked to me like they were waiting at the bus stop for a bus. Or, maybe like other posters here...They were in a State of Denial. jajaja

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 02:12 am by Jimmy

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Do you know the victims of the kidnappings, Mr. Baca, and where they live? Tell us who they were. Where is this source of yours?

How can you use a capitalized "FACT" about their residences and the word "apparently" in the same sentence?

"...FACT....."

"....apparently...."

"....it seems....."

"I may be wrong, but......."

And we're supposed to take some comfort in this specious argument of yours? I'm supposed to feel good that "apparently" none of them lived here, because you started it all with the word FACT? LOL!

It may turn out that none of them lived in San Carlos. But FACTS are FACTS, and I'm not seeing the FACTS you are claiming. Unless you are, for some reason, hiding the source of your FACTS. I see pure speculation. I see an "argument" that would be ripped to shreds by a junior high debate team member.


I really dont see much significance with where they lived, anyway. When outside cartels take over towns like Chihuahua or Acapulco or Tecoman or Juarez, it matters little that the perps weren't from the immediate area. The results are the same. 

I'm not equating San Carlos with these towns, of course. But the residences of these thugs, matters very little. OK, maybe you wont get shot by your neighbor, while going out to the mailbox. But, is it a comfort to victims of crimes in San Diego that the perps were from El Cajon or Chula Vista? I doubt it. Perps go where they want. They came here with their guns. And San Carlos has a certain attraction, like San Diego does. Thugs like beaches and bars, too, I would imagine.  They're probably not hanging out in Ortiz........

Besides, one of the dead was from SJ de Guaymas. That's close enough for me. Maybe 10-15 minutes away from SC? There is clearly nothing stopping him or his element from coming here, whenever they choose. Same goes for the guy from HMO. Steal a car and go wherever you want. "Hey, man, let's cruise San Carlos in our stolen car with our guns, man".


I still think the odds of a gringo becoming a victim are extremely small. But this type of ill-conceived argument needs to be exposed for what it is. Speculation with "spin".......... but NOT FACTS.

I hope that business interests in San Carlos don't start "circling the wagons" and begin feeding us "alternative FACTS" on all this;  to protect their business interests. 


 

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There is a video on Facebook of another car that came by the OXXO shooting, just after it occurred. Two people from that vehicle began shooting at the car that shot the guys in the Sienna van, as they were driving away. Looks like an automatic or semi-automatic rifle was used. Those bullets probably impacted a building that had people in it; given the location. Not too many empty lots along Beltrones in that area. Somebody should look for bullet holes in the outside of Iguanas, if my orientation is correct.

https://www.facebook.com/FM105Guaymas/videos/1564748146925902/

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I just returned from Hermosillo and there is a massive presence by the Federal Police and all lanes are blocked entering and exiting San Carlos.  That's the kind of security I'm talking about.  I am very proud of the swift response to the acts of outsiders a few days ago.  

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Richard Baca wrote: A FACT in all this is that has escaped many of us is that apparently ALL of the victims as well as the perps WERE NOT, and are ARE NOT San Carlos Residents. It seems that these events were executed by visitors that came here to do their dirty work! I may be wrong, but none lived here and are not likely to be back anytime soon. Someone posted that, "they live among us". That may in fact be true, but these recent incidents appear to be have been executed by outsiders (to Carlos).
Yes Hook, I wrote "A FACT in all this that has escaped many of us the that apparently ALL of the victims as well as the perps WERE NOT, and ARE NOT San Carlos Residents". Well yes I'll grant you that there is an element of hyperbole in my use of "FACT" at the start of my post, however, the victims have all been identified in the news as being from elsewhere. The perps, as far as we know, remain at large but there is nothing to indicate that they are local. So please forgive my hyperbole, but I stand by it until proven otherwise.

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Please post the source containing the victims names and their domiciles.

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Other board, reporting that SC is now closed with police, feds, blocking all lanes in and out. Also stating the possibility of the perps being at large yet in SC. Anyone got anything on this or can substantiate?

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johnmoore wrote: Other board, reporting that SC is now closed with police, feds, blocking all lanes in and out. Also stating the possibility of the perps being at large yet in SC. Anyone got anything on this or can substantiate?
That's nothing but pure speculation by you-know-who. Though, I do find it interesting that he appears to HOPE that there are perps still in town and that it might get "interesting."  

If there are perps, it could get really dangerous.  Interesting is not an adjective I would use. A major shoot out or a hostage situation could ensue. Collateral damage would be a greater possibility.

I guess that would be a means to his statement that "fewer Americans [in San Carlos] would not be a bad thing." 

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I made the post on the other board, and probably was not clear.  There is a road block, they are checking all cars entering or existing San Carlos, but you can get through.  I just did about an hour ago.  I assume the government is making a statement that trouble makers are not welcome in San Carlos. It is a great response, and it was swift.  Applaud it.

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Here is an article that I found in El Vigía. It is a Google translation:

xecute to six In just 15 hours ...
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The wave of violence that affects the municipality increased yesterday when the execution of 6 people and gunshot injuries were recorded in another three, in three isolated events

As never before in the history of Guaymas, violence occurred in the municipality and in three different events there were armed attacks, in which 6 people were executed and 3 more were injured with a firearm projectile.

Although people are involved in organized crime, the violent events recorded in the afternoon, night and morning of Thursday and Friday are a serious predicament for residents and seriously affect the image of the municipality, in terms of tourism.

While in other triennies Guaymas was considered one of the safest municipalities, not only the state, but the country, these bloody events place it as not recommended for vacation.

The efforts made by entrepreneurs are overshadowed by insecurity and the Mayor does not act to take any action to try to improve the security of Guaymen for him it is more important to attend the Fifth Forum of the National Association of Mayors.



Find more bodies

In an uncontrollable wave of violent events the dawn of Friday was found two people executed in an address of the Ranchito sector of San Carlos, reason why in only eight hours were four deaths registered in that tourist pole.

During the first minutes of Friday, a woman appeared at the Public Prosecutor's Office to say that she had been "raised" and taken to the house located on A street, between Second and Third avenues of the Ranchito Campestre sector, from where she was able to leave And noted that two men had been executed.

She said that, along with other people, she was deprived of her freedom and then some men dressed in military and murdered those who guarded the place, so she could escape.

Upon arriving at the site, about two hours later, elements of the Ministerial Investigation Agency and the State Public Security Police found two bodies on the porch of the house.

One was wearing an orange t-shirt and another was without clothes, both of which showed signs of torture and several gunshot wounds.

Outside the home was a ton-type vehicle in white and inside were drums used to store fuel.

One block from where the events occurred was a vehicle in gray with blood stains inside and outside.



Five escape

According to the information, five people managed to escape from the home of Ranchito San Carlos.

After a group of hired assassins, dressed as military men, arrived at Calle A, between Second and Third avenues, opened fire and killed two subjects who guarded the place; Five people, four men and one woman managed to escape.

All had been "raised" during the last days in several sectors of Guaymas, being the woman who went to the Public Prosecutor's Office to report what happened.



Four dead in San Carlos

In only eight hours were four deaths from violent incidents in San Carlos Guaymas.

As reported, prior to the executions discovered at dawn, at 6:00 pm on Thursday two individuals were killed, while one was injured, in the middle of the boulevard Manlio Fabio Beltrones Rivera, adjudicated to settle accounts between criminal groups.

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You were clear, lasninas. You made it through. Your post was misinterpreted.


However, two days later is not very swift in my opinion. A response within a few minutes at the time of these acts would be considered swift to me.


But that never happens.


When the guy got popped at the marina, I got it on good authority that it took the police 45 minutes to get to the scene, after they were called. He was shot on a friend of mine's boat. He just happened to be hanging out on the swimstep. The owner was not there, but there were deckhands on the dock.


I think it's all for show, too, out on the highway. The bad guys will stay away until it's taken down. If we know about the roadblock thousands of miles away, you can be sure the bad guys in HMO or SJ de G or Empalme, know.

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WOW, MaryT, that is a lot of new information!
So, it looks like the newspaper has concluded that the paramilitary guys were bad guys, too.

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 05:25 am by Hook

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As of 10:00 PM tonight, Saturday 8/26/2017 there are no roadblocks into or out of San Carlos. Traffic is moving normally. Rain is probable.

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I wonder if it's possible that these paramilitary guys are for hire to do this kind of stuff. Maybe a friend of the victims knew about this organization. This is a really strange scenario.


Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive........


Organization or gang, what's the difference, really?


A rose by any other name?


Just caught me some Bill Shakespeare at the outdoor theatre last night......can you tell?

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 07:16 am by Hook

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I believe it is much easier in Mexico to get your hands on police uniforms so we don´t know if they were real military people or just wearing the uniforms. I don´t think the article did anything but quote what people reported as military uniforms being seen.

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Yeah, I guess the uniforms dont really matter much. It's been proven many times that gangs can be hired to commit hits........in all countries, not just Mexico. But it is not uncommon here. Like kidnapping.


I still find it amusing that people find the US more dangerous than Mexico. Statistically, it isnt even close. Mexico is 22 on the most recent list. But many of the countries above them are in a state of war against a neighboring country or an insurgency. The US is 50th. Canada is really safe, somewhere down around 160.


Kidnappings, not involving family members, are extremely rare in the US. Why? Because police forces are an effective deterrent in the US. It's not easy to get away with a crime like that. Not so in Mexico.


Appears some of the bad guys had an operation out of Solimar, according to a post on the other board. That person claims that all of this was connected.

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Big news: Federal troops are coming to San Carlos today. No word on how long it will last. Sounds like we will have "strategic points" manned throughout the city, starting at 4pm.


http://elportaldelanoticia.mx/policiaca/2131-corporaciones-policiacas-de-todos-los-niveles-blindaran-guaymas-y-san-carlos-a-partir-de-hoy

Last edited on Sun Aug 27th, 2017 04:44 pm by Hook

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The gas theft issue is not a joke. It is a huge criminal enterprise.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/world/americas/mexico-fuel-theft-crisis.html

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I didnt see the article mention another bad aspect of all this fuel theft. The fuel is often mixed with other cheaper chemicals to increase profit on the black market. Some of these chemicals are bad for engines.


Even the stuff directly from Pemex trucks is susceptible to this. Pemex has caught their delivery drivers offloading a portion of their tanks and replacing it with these chemicals. They got paid by black marketers to do this.


I guess there are probably "gas gangs" now. The article alludes to organized crime being involved.


What's next? "Beer gangs" who deliver tainted beer in kegs to our bars? God forbid!!!

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Stealing gas used to be small time but the cartels got into it. It sounds to bizarre to believe. They seem to be taking advantage of their ability to corrupt and control to branch out from drugs to almost anything illegal.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/two-cartels-linked-to-pipeline-thefts/

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4pm came and went - guess they are "undercover". !

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Maybe manaña?

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i have seen state trucks all over today, patrolling!

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What about the troops, Sargent Frankie? Any sign of them?

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Problem   we got no problem....notice the guy selling stolen gas is right across from a Police Bldg.

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limey, where was this photo taken? what evidence do you have that the gas was stolen?
many communities are far from gas stations and individuals provide this type of service!

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I believe it's taken from one of the articles on fuel theft in the posts above.

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i guide deer hunts near ortiz, we have to travel to la travasda to purchase fuel for the hunts. that for me is an 1 1/2 hour trip!! there is an individual who sells gas in ortiz at a higher price than the stations. i am not sure where he purchases his fuel!

PEMEX, has their own paramilitary units, which is designed to combat theft. they look as well equipped as any SWAT unit in the USA!!

Last edited on Mon Aug 28th, 2017 03:53 pm by frankiej

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I, too, have bought gas from privateers in Baja, in days gone by. Especially around the junction of Hwy 1 and Bahia de Los Angeles. But that was just guys buying from a conventional station and selling for a profit at a remote location. I would see them filling up in Villa Jesus Maria, at times. That's probably what the guy is doing on your Ortiz trips.


I dont know that there are any gas pipelines this far north in Sonora or Sinaloa. That's the main source of fuel thefts. That, and truck hijacking. Much of the fuel in northern Mexico comes from the US by truck. I think we are too far south for this, based on the fact that we still get LSD diesel, instead of ULSD.

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hook , thank you!! lots of speculation without evidence!!

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Ok, now that we've flipped this thread to general crime, is there any updates on the shootings?

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The deceased have been rounded up and taken into custody. But, they aren't talking. 

Last edited on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 01:46 am by Jimmy

Hook
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frankiej wrote: hook , thank you!! lots of speculation without evidence!!
I gave evidence for the privateers that I have used. I saw the same guys I bought fuel from buying it legally at a Pemex.
Besides, I was agreeing with you that your guy could have been legal, too.
The photo is the photo. Read the article. Draw your own conclusions. It is not a local photo.

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hook , you burro, i was complementing you!! it was the others who had no evidence and where speculating!!

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This burro's misunderstanding.

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Ok this has now reached no longer relevant to the original topic so this one is done.



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