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 Moderated by: bartmanaz  
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Jimmy
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A couple of years before this photo was taken I parked my Motorhome where they built the Office Building and connected free to the Marina power for 4 months. I kept the Marina Guards supplied with fresh fish cough right out of the Marina so they let me slide. My Trimaran Sailboat is setting in the background having some repairs done.


It was Soooo Sweet here in those days.

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BUILD MARINA.jpg

dezrat57
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Was the pic taken 12/98 ?Great Times.......
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Ahhhhh, the memories. Sleepy little town on the water. So much has changed.

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The oldest and best pic I have seen is in the marina gas station office circa 1973 or so

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This photo was on Facebook a while back.  The year was not given.

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Danodamano
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Must have been early 1970s, as I see Club Yate.

Bullshipper
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That predates the one I saw Rich. Thanks

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El Yate was in full swing in the 80's. Was a great place to dance and listen to the band. My next door neighbor was one of two owners. He died on Christmas eve in a car accident, coming home from Guaymas. That was in 1985 if my memory serves me well.

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It is really cool to look at old photos and understand the the history.

That said, SC is great today. Never get why ppl always talk about the past like it was better than today. It wasn't in 95% of cases.

Last edited on Mon Aug 7th, 2017 05:13 am by JZ

Danodamano
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We're just saying life in San Carlos has always been good and it's nice to look back on good times.

Bullshipper
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JZ wrote: It is really cool to look at old photos and understand the the history.

That said, SC is great today. Never get why ppl always talk about the past like it was better than today. It wasn't in 95% of cases.
The fishing was better then

Jimmy
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Lots in the Ranchitos were selling for $600 when I took my photo in 1998. My 1st time in SC was the early '90's. But I had a house in Mazatlan and a little farm in El Quelite starting in 1970. Back then Guaymas was just a Stinky place you had to drive through to get to Paradise.


In those days the Sardine Cannery was on Serdan and the bay and their waste emptied into the Bay. And, the untreated sewage from Guaymas also drained directly into the Bay. The Stench in Guaymas was so bad that on my way Driving to Mazatlan I had to soak a towel in water and cover my nose and mouth North of Guaymas and keep it on until South of Emplame.


Another thing, in the Olden Days, was that all of the Street vendors in all of Mexico cooked with Carbon (Charcoal) until it was outlawed in the '90's. And on Calm, no wind days that smoke hung heavy in the air,  in Guaymas that smoke co-mingled, in a bad way, with the other odors. 

frankiej
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here we are camping on algadones beach in 1970 the photos where developed in 1971

Attachment: Scan0038.pdf (Downloaded 161 times)

ezmony
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And if the carbon wasn't bad enough--the dump used to burn 24/7.

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San Carlos falls into the 5%. San Carlos was better then, and for countless reasons!! Obviously, if you were not here, you would not know.

Danodamano
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For us who were here in the 60s and 70s, we just know how it was and cherish those times. However, it doesn't stop me from loving it now, and looking towards its future as I prepare to buy an new place this week.

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The good ole days were better. We actually had water all of the time. No traffic, and the seafood was plentiful and fresh. Garbage was picked up each week, and there were very few robberies. Everyone knew everyone, and the beaches were clean. Prices were a lot lower, and the life was simple. Your word meant something.

frankiej
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i am from arizona, born in phoenix and raised in tucson. i remember when there wasn't a million people in the whole state. now the metropolis's of phoenix have close to 5 million and tucson the "old pueblo" has 1 million.
my naturally pristine "old pueblo" tucson is a distant memory!
if you have a chance watch the movie "red river" with john wayne, walter brenan, it was filmed in 1948, around the back of the rincon's mountains and sonota!
i was about 17 years old in the pictures i posted here at algadones beach, it was the year after they made the movie "catch 22"!

frankiej
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these are the "good ole days", i plan on enjoying them, here in san carlos as my base with the years i have left!

johnmoore
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good for you Frankie, that is probably the healthy way to look at things, but you know both of the current San Carlos Blogs/Forums are mostly filled with complaints. Water, trash, how tax monies are spent, crime, and on and on!! The blog/forum of the late 1970's and early 80's, was quite different matter....full of joy, fish stories (good) and invitations. Do you remember 4:00pm, EVERYDAY???

Jimmy
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Check out Guaymas in 1967. Video from NASA, about Guaymas, when NASA had a tracking station south of Emplame. I was in Guaymas that year. Brings back memories.



https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42712.0

frankiej
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jimmy, thanks!!!! look how nice and new guaymas looked!!!!!!

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Jimmy,
Thanks for sharing that video link! Wow.
Peter

Jimmy
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We really need to Thank Richard Baca (Gunny). I got the link from him.

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Thanks Jimmy... It all came about because my Sister-in-Law married one of those NASA engineers who later got transferred to the NASA Station in Fairbanks, AK. My wife went to visit them and that's how I met her and ended up in San Carlos.

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Yep, it was really great back then, but only NASA, Jimmy and Frankie were around then...plenty fish.

Danodamano
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And me

odwyerpw
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johnmoore wrote: Yep, it was really great back then, but only NASA, Jimmy and Frankie were around then...plenty fish.
John,You made my morning coffee shoot out of my nose.. priceless.. thanks for the moment of levity.
I guess in those days, places like Puerto Vallarta and Acapulco would have been the big draws.
Peter

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I didn't live here back then. I would just Pass Through. HWY 15 was a 2 lane road that went through Guaymas.  I knew nothing of San Carlos then and Guaymas was a Stink Pot when the air was still or blew off of the Bay.


In those days my time was spent in Mazatlan. Which was a True Paradise in the '60's and '70's. It was small but had every amenity that a young man could dream of. It wasn't until the early '90's that I became aware of San Carlos. Just 20 years ago San Carlos was nice. That was before it became a Bastion of the Gray Panthers and their Northern Culture.

frankiej
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i was 17 years old in the pictures i posted, i was here on spring break!
i was into mazatlan also!!
 i have lived here 16 years now, san carlos has it's ebbs and flows, but it is home and i am happy here!

Last edited on Wed Aug 9th, 2017 06:13 pm by frankiej

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nostalgia is always fondly remembering the good old days and forgetting the bad stuff someday these will be the good old days

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"the good old day", were void of infrastructure issues. you could, can, freeze, smoke, any tuna genre to your hearts content, on a daily basis. And in season, dorado, sierra, corbina, you could even buy abalone, shipped in daily from Baja, at Castros Fish, in Guaymas. The sense of community was huge then, we all learned to live with less, and adopt to Mexico and it's culture. Very little was done to make this U.S. south....Prior to parabolic antennae, we all listened to radio, records and tapes. Prior to telephone service here (which we all paid for, the install of poles and equipment) CB's were our only source of communication. The marina needed some help, it was a place you used on an enter at your own risk place..lol You tied up on a couple of 2x6' lashed or somehow secured to 50 gal drums....pretty primitive, but it sufficed. Could go on and on, this is not nostalgia, these on facts, nostalgia is from the heart. In my opinion, what we have now, is no where near, what those of us, once were a part of.

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Just who are the Grey Panthers? Never heard the term before.

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Grey haired activists (literal meaning). Old Gringos (my meaning)


I hope you understood the cut that they bring their North of the Border Culture with them.


After my experience with Mortal Combat in Vietnam I started coming to Mexico as an Escape from that Cultural Mind Set. And for most of my time in Mexico since then I do Full Immersion. I come to Mexico to take a break from the Gringo Culture. Don't associate with Gringos. Don't speak English.


My problem is that the "Old Mexico" that I escaped to is No Longer Here. It has Morphed into something else.   



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jimmy, if you are an old arizona boy as i am, you'll remember this;"welcome to arizona, now go home" !!
well eventually the "snowbirds" never went home!
basically the same has happened here in mexico, especially states like sonora, baja california.
for me, my experience has been like being transported in a time machine to what it was like in AZ. in the 50/60's!!
i can still go hunting where i want and it is not crowded with other hunters! out in wild sonora, no cell, no electricity, gas stations 35 miles away!
there are grey panthers here, who bring their unwanted NOB ideology here!! GG on the other forum is a perfect example!!!!!

Last edited on Sat Aug 12th, 2017 05:20 pm by frankiej

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In the days that we are talking about, there was a "distinct and obvious" difference between North of the boarder and San Carlos. Now the difference is not so disenable. That is were the problem lies. Full-Time Newbies here (less than 15 years here), moved here (in many cases have no other place to go in US, they are all in financially) because of the similarity, as opposed to the distinct differences from the place they have moved from. Finding this, they want it all, all that they left (progressive, convenient self indulgencies) and all, that they know what San Carlos once offered....can't have both, and now in there contempt, have no place to go. Usually this is the result of buying after their FIRST visit. There was a time, that made a bit of sense.....but not now. Along with the attitude many have brought, the next biggest issue is the infrastructure, it was not designed, nor will it ever be completely capable of supporting the influx, of not only Gringo's, but now the Mexicans that have now discovered San Carlos.

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There are still places in Mexico where you can live in the old way. Not sure why anyone would choose San Carlos if that is what they are looking for. I don't think I am the only one that just likes living in a seaside community. I would live in the area North of San Diego if I could afford it. At any rate, complaining about things here wont change them.

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Jimmy, if you don't associate with gringo's what are you doing on this forum?

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I completely agree with RichD, I make one exception, I complain about the complainers.....lol

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GWeedo the Newbe, When I am in Mexico I do not associate with your type. Fortunately, I have the substance to not be chained to one place.


Apparently, my point about living full immersion while in Mexico slipped past your keen eye.

Last edited on Sat Aug 12th, 2017 07:06 pm by Jimmy

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I remember when I wanted to get a phone line, it cost me $1000 dlls. Not many phone lines back then, and it went out all of the time. If you moved, they would charge you $400 dlls to move the phone number to where ever you were moving to, IF they could. Not many poles back in the day. Two lane road clear to the border, and the trucks would pass on curves. Everyone was on a septic system, and radio was the choice of communication. Three docks in the marina (I still have the photos) and they were down near the fuel dock. Marina office was really tiny, and there were maybe six boats anchored in the bay. Club Med didn't exist yet, and neither did Marina Real. I took lots of photos of Marina real when it was a cactus forest. And where Plaza Las Glorias was built, use to be the mud flats where the mexicans would drag their pongas ashore.

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johnmoore, I hear you about complaining about the complainers. Of all the things I don't like about living here the biggest complaint is the amount of complaining. A good example is the women who started the clean up group. She started by picking up trash herself and then other people joined in to help. A great local effort. And yet people complain about it. Either they don't think they do enough or they are fools for doing something the government should do. Good grief. I have been coming to San Carlos since 1972. Lots of changes, not all of which I like but I still manage to enjoy my life here. In my opinion, how happy you are to live here depends 100% on your attitude. Take a pill, enjoy your life.

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Rich - nicely said.

Where is the thumbs up :-)


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complainers just got to complain its how they get noticed i see a lot of that here what happened to live and let live good post richd

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42,43,44 Bravo!!!

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personally san carlos suites me fine! it's still a safe and friendly village!
not to be a hypocrite i do like coming to a nice home with air conditioning, 60" satellite HDTV, phones for local and international use, most of the conveniences anyone would want! this is my base and are my standards!
i love the idea that i have the expanse of the sea of cortez in front of me and mountains i could get lost in behind me!
i can drive to ranches where i am always an invited guest and marvel at the desert as it is now and was when only the indigenous peoples roamed here!
in the words of "bob marley" DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY!!!

johnmoore
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I also agree with Frankie, I don't want to live in a tent, and walk outside to do my duty. We all enjoy the things Frankie stated, but we sometimes forget how fragile these things are, and that is when we go into the complainer mode. No where than in San Carlos, is the old adage, location, location, location, important when purchasing. I would ALWAYS suggest one buy within the area of the original infrastructure. Good idea, what do you all think?

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johnmoore wrote:;]I would ALWAYS suggest one buy within the area of the original infrastructure. Good idea, what do you all think?
i agree only changing "original infrastructure" to existing infrastructure!

Last edited on Sat Aug 12th, 2017 06:02 pm by frankiej

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john, what do you mean by and what are the boundaries of the original infrastructure?

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A very good question MaryT. For me, it would be La Roca to the ease, the Bahia to the west, La Playa to the south, and maybe 1/2 mile to the north from Beltrones. I am really open to better educated thoughts than mine on this matter.

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VisitorSanCarlos wrote: nostalgia is always fondly remembering the good old days and forgetting the bad stuff someday these will be the good old days

This x 1000.  Very few things were better than they are now.

And there are tons of places you can go if you want to experience places with very few ppl. Hop on your boat and take it the 80 miles across to Baja.



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Jimmy, I'm not exactly a newbie. First came down in 74. Don't post often because I'm not a big talker. Vietnam 66 and 67 but I'm only semi anti social.

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Well, then you know of the ex vets who escaped to Mexico after the war, and why they did so Si o No?

Last edited on Sat Aug 12th, 2017 09:03 pm by Jimmy

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If La Roca is the big rock by Charlie´s Rock, then I would think you would need to go further east because Triana, Fiesta and the Conqustadores go a good ways back.

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MaryT, Ask 10 people you will get 10 different answers. I base my thinking on where the "utility mains" run. So I would think to the north and to the south of Beltrones.

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I have been living "full immersion" for most of the 30+ years that I have lived here. I know very few Anglos and am deeply immersed in the Mexican culture. As an educator, I teach in a Mexican school. All of my friends, family, and socios are Mexican. I love the culture of Guaymas which is very much a family town. San Carlos is VERY different than Guaymas. So, in our discussions, it is important that we separate the two -- almost two different cultures in my opinion.

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I completely agree about the difference between SC and Guaymas. But still, Mexico before NAFTA was a sooo much better experience than today......I guess that is the price of progress.

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I really wonder how many local Mexicans would complain about the "invasion" of the gringos. Very few, I suspect, given the amount of money we have put into this community, as well as the incredible charitable organization that continue to do good work in their neighborhoods. 

I find it ironic that some complain about the influx of foreigners........when they are foreigners, themselves. They just arrived a little earlier. Very hypocritical, IMO. You "think" you are living like a local, but the locals have become more "gringocized" (by choice) than maybe you realize. Good wages lead to more buying power and people choose the accouterments of capitalism in almost every culture. Ultimately, what you are complaining about is not being able to buy tacos and beers for the equivalent of 20 cents/US, anymore. Suck it up, buttercup.

One thing I think we can all agree on...........the fishing is immensely worse than even 10 years ago.  And there is no way in hell that gringo sportfishers could do the damage that has been done. It took the concerted efforts of Mexican "fish and game" allowing commercials from within and outside of the country to do it.  

Yes, it's a tired old saw, from me.................

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I still say that the dismal fishing has more to do with the seiners and long liners operating outside of the 12 mile limit. The Mexican Navy has one fairly modern frigate in Guaymas, but that's not nearly enough oversight even if they could legally intercept outside of the 12 mile line. What to do? I dunno, does anyone have a viable solution/suggestion?

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All we can do Richard is to watch the demise of the Oceans. I was horrified to read the attached report written by knowledgeable educators at Stanford University. I always laugh (Sadly) when prognosticators say "Unless things Change". The only time the Human Animal changes is After a Catastrophe, not before.  


http://news.stanford.edu/news/2006/november8/ocean-110806.html

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Richard Baca wrote: I still say that the dismal fishing has more to do with the seiners and long liners operating outside of the 12 mile limit. The Mexican Navy has one fairly modern frigate in Guaymas, but that's not nearly enough oversight even if they could legally intercept outside of the 12 mile line. What to do? I dunno, does anyone have a viable solution/suggestion?
Richard, fixing it would require fixing corruption in Mexico. Is there a solution for that? 

The Mexican Navy is largely "hands off" on this because it is the purview of SEMARNAT  or PESCA, or whomever is responsible for the fisheries, at the federal level. Unless those agencies report a violation to them, the Navy has no way of knowing what vessel is fishing legally or illegally. Sometimes the Navy gets involved;  probably when PESCA realizes that said vessel did not pay them to look the other way, while they fish commercially for dorado or billfish (which is completely illegal). Or sometimes they will ask a sportfisher to produce their fishing license. But it's rare.

YES, THERE MUST BE COMMERCIAL BILLFISHING GOING ON! How does it appear on so many menus? Same reason dorado does. Illegal commercial fishing.

Money corrupts. It takes dedication to the ideals of management, THAT MANY COUNTRIES LIKE COSTA RICA OR PANAMA POSSESS, to fix it. Mexico has always been considered the most corrupt Latin American country. It's become so cultural.


frankiej
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where is green peace?

Hook
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It's a bad pun, but I suspect that Greenpeace has bigger fish to fry. Or, they are aware of the intransigence of the Mexican Government, when it comes to corruption, and it's a hopeless cause. They cant man enough boats to deter the illegal fishing. No, the solution must come from the Mexican Government. For that to happen would probably take political pressure from outside Mexico.


It's really so sad. This was once probably the greatest collection of marine species on the entire planet. Costeau rightfully called it "the world's aquarium".


The Mexican Government allowed it to be destroyed in about 40-50 years. It probably still could be called that, into the 60s. And, yet, even after that, the fishing was still incredible. But real old timers like Cannon and Tom Miller and others saw significant declines in the 70s and 80s. You overcatch sardines and shrimp and the whole ecosystem is brought to its knees.

No one EVER thought that a fish as prolific at reproducing as dorado would EVER be threatened. But that's where we are. They might never actually be EXTINCT, because it's hard to track the last dorado down like a land bird like the dodo bird.


I really feel the only hope is an outright ban on fishing, WITH ENFORCEMENT, of the entire Sea. Of course, that would kill me........but I am dying a slow death because of the lack of fish, anyway. My fishing memories in the Sea only go back to the 80s.

Last edited on Mon Aug 14th, 2017 05:41 pm by Hook

Richard Baca
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Hook, Frankie and others, SEMARNAT and PESCA are responsible for fishing WITHIN the 12 mile territorial limit (from both sides of the Gulf). It's the Mexican Navy that patrols the international waters of the Gulf and that's a legal grey area due to the Worldwide legal status of the 200 mile "economic zone" claimed by some countries. In other words, if the Mexican Navy intercepts a long liner in the international waters of the Gulf, what are they able to do?


As for SEMARNAT and PESCA inside of the 12 mile limit there is very little enforcement. Just think of how many sports fishermen and women actually EVER get a valid fishing license even though it is required!? Corruption? Yeah it's suspected, but within the 12 mile limit, who is paying and for what? We can all speculate but hard facts are difficult to come by.

frankiej
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who owns the long liners and where are they from?

bombero
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Research and read to your hearts discontent:

https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=long+liners+in+the+sea+of+cortez&oq=lon&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39k1l2j0i67k1l2.499.889.0.3933.4.3.0.0.0.0.123.357.0j3.3.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.3.356.0..0j0i131k1.2Eu8QDUFOXE

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Thanks Bombero; that pretty much details the dilemma of the longliners vs. the commercial fishing within the 12 mile limit vs. the international zone. It also puts forth Mexico's intent to make the entire Sea of Cortez open to "legal" sports fishing. The huge number of pangas fishing for subsistence as well as for sale to restaurants are a cultural phenomenon that I don't think can be regulated any more than making all sports fishermen and women get licenses. How many pangeros do you think have PESCA licenses? There is spot checking for things like turtle catch and shrimp/lobster catch during spawning season, but it's spotty at best. I know of a panga crew of three that did jail time for a turtle in their panga, and another person caught selling lobster our of season here in SC.

RichD
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I would offer that even longliners and panga fishermen have a minor impact on dorado compared to the sardine boats. No bait, no fish. Pacific sardine populations have crashed. Will Mexico ban sardine fishing? Not likely.

http://oceana.org/press-center/press-releases/west-coast-commercial-sardine-fishery-closed-third-consecutive-year

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Even though I have, disappointedly, accepted the fact that I must observe the demise of life in the Ocean. It makes me Madd as Hell that they are being fished Out by Self Serving Commercial Gluttons who are intent on grabbing the Last Fish in the Ocean for themselves.


Its all about the Money! But mostly, too many mouths to feed.


We are living in a unique time-The End Time. If you live another 30 years (Me maybe 20) and we see the end to sea life, (2050-As stated in the Stanford Study) what else will we see an end of.


Overpopulation and Greed.
I see the Earth today as an orange with mold. It doesn't take long for the mold to devour the Orange.

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Jimmy wrote: Even though I have, disappointedly, accepted the fact that I must observe the demise of life in the Ocean. It makes me Madd as Hell that they are being fished Out by Self Serving Commercial Gluttons who are intent on grabbing the Last Fish in the Ocean for themselves.


Its all about the Money! But mostly, too many mouths to feed.


We are living in a unique time-The End Time. If you live another 30 years (Me maybe 20) and we see the end to sea life, (2050-As stated in the Stanford Study) what else will we see an end of.


Overpopulation and Greed.
I see the Earth today as an orange with mold. It doesn't take long for the mold to devour the Orange.


Just admit it, you want the future to be crappy so you can say how great it was in your day.


Last edited on Mon Aug 14th, 2017 11:51 pm by JZ

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JZ I don't understand why you decided to Cyber Bully me.  Kino


 

Last edited on Tue Aug 15th, 2017 12:17 am by Jimmy

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Just ignore him Jimmy, he is obviously one of those with nothing better to do than read what his brain rattled! Causing others discomfort anonymously is a sign of a disturbed person.

As for that dire prediction of depleted of eatable fisheries after 2050 I don't agree, and the reason I don't agree is that we have the example of The Mediterranean Sea. The Med is a closed body of water with only a small ingress and egress. It has been fished for basically ALL of recorded history and yet continues to produce. Our oceans are vast; some 75% of the Earth's surface, so though we have a few examples of diminished fisheries like our Gulf of California and the Sea of Japan, the planet, methinks, is gonna make it!

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Richard, after having vacationed a bit in Spain and Greece, I can say that there is little fish of any commercial value left in the Mediterranean. Most all the swordfish and tuna you see on the menus is from elsewhere. They will still find the occasional sardine school and hidden octopus, but, unless they declare a moratorium on fishing, it is probably as doomed as the Sea of Cortez. On bodies of water so bounded by land, it's easy for commercials to lay lines across their only avenue of escape.


It's been like this for a long time. Here is a Nat Geo article from 2012.


https://voices.nationalgeographic.org/2012/03/02/overfishing-leaves-much-of-mediterranean-a-dead-sea-study-finds/

Guido
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The planet will make it,we won't. Watch George Carlin, climate change on utube.

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Thank you Hook. Yes, it's spotty, but given the thousands of years of fishing, there are still fish there. Not everywhere as you point out though. It seems that many littoral regions with large human populations are causing overfishing problems. Not so here though, because we only have two significant cities on the whole Gulf of California, Guaymas/Empalme and La Paz. So the problem in the Gulf has to be longliners and seiners. It matters not that they are Mexican or Japanese; IMO, the Mexican government has to police the Gulf asserting its 200 mile "economic zone". Just look at the illegal fishing in the Northern Gulf where the vaquita and totoaba are near extinction! I think that it's due to woefully inadequate policing. And it's not like they didn't know it was happening. John Steinbeck mentions a weird encounter in Bahia Los Angeles in 1939! And a visit to a Japanese factory ship just outside of Guaymas also in 1939! It's time for the Mexican government to step up to the plate!

Last edited on Tue Aug 15th, 2017 06:20 pm by

johnmoore
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I wrote earlier, that 20 plus yrs ago one could fish and catch responsibly as much fish as they wanted, almost daily. Then almost overnight, it was gone.....the long liners had devastated the Sea. It was incredible, how fast and complete this happened. Will it resurge, has it resurged, at all? I know the pods of dolphin are down, the multitudes of birds feeding as the larger fish force bait to the surface are rarely seen. Is the shrimp business as strong as it once was?? Not rhetorical, want to know.

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Johnmoore, I remember those days and remember the wild schools of skipjack that were sometimes a nuisance. How I wish we had them back now! Then we had the invasion of Humboldt squid, and I think they had some to do with the decimation of the pelagic fish population too. Anyway, I hope the Mexican government steps in and does something. The shrimp industry seems to be surviving though.

Jimmy
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I think, I think, I think. 


As an educated individual I would prefer to ask what the Scientists who have studied these things for many years as their profession Think.


"I Think"......That folks should study what the attachments in this Thread have to say


 



 

Last edited on Tue Aug 15th, 2017 10:03 pm by Jimmy

Hook
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The explosion of the Humboldt squid were probably due to the commercials taking their natural predators in large numbers. Maybe sharks, maybe large tunas. Then, the commercials took large numbers of the Humboldt squid. Now, they are rare here. It could be cyclical........but the actions of the commercials are, too. They overfish whatever is available.


Nothing much of commercial value is left except for billfish. For one of the rare times, I agree with Vince. The billfish are probably next. They have removed the dorado, the sharks, the large tunas, the totuava, etc.


Or maybe, with the recent resurgence of the tortugas, they will go after those, again. Why not? There is no enforcement to speak of.

Hook
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Richard Baca wrote: Thank you Hook. Yes, it's spotty, but given the thousands of years of fishing, there are still fish there. Not everywhere as you point out though. It seems that many littoral regions with large human populations are causing overfishing problems. Not so here though, because we only have two significant cities on the whole Gulf of California, Guaymas/Empalme and La Paz. So the problem in the Gulf has to be longliners and seiners. It matters not that they are Mexican or Japanese; IMO, the Mexican government has to police the Gulf asserting its 200 mile "economic zone". Just look at the illegal fishing in the Northern Gulf where the vaquita and totoaba are near extinction! I think that it's due to woefully inadequate policing. And it's not like they didn't know it was happening. John Steinbeck mentions a weird encounter in Bahia Los Angeles in 1939! And a visit to a Japanese factory ship just outside of Guaymas also in 1939! It's time for the Mexican government to step up to the plate!
The Mexican government HAS stepped up to the plate.
But the plate is being served by monied commercial fishing interests. And they are not in the best interest of the Sea. 
Ho hum, why even discuss problems where the solution involves a curbing of corruption in Mexico? Its like hoping the cartels will go away. Money will find a way.

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The Mexican Navy cannot be bought. Proof? Just look at who captured El Chapo... both times! If anyone could buy their way out, he could for sure! But the Mexican Navy and Mexican Marines did the job. And they are doing it all the time. They are the most reliable of the Mexican Federal law enforcement branches. What happens out in the Gulf is small potatoes in comparison and out there they are under staffed and under equipped. Like I commented before, one frigate is just not enough for the area of concern.

Kathy R
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What happened to the original thread???????

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Someone posted reminiscences of the way the fishing experience was a few years ago. Yes, it was better. So then the thread morphed into "why did the fishing diminish?" The generally accepted reason is overfishing by the seiners and longliners so from there we went to enforcement, and that's how we got here. That's what happened to the reminiscences thread. Do you have anything to add?

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Most fish lived close to shore or near shallow bottom structures so a 12 mile limit has more to do with international boders than protecting habitats imo. More fish have been caught in the last 50 years or so than in the history of man.

Jimmy
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I started this thread and I have enjoyed every twist and turn. Thanks to everyone who joined in to make it interesting.

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From what I hear the Humboldt always were cyclical. They  are more somewhere out in the Pacific now. Sardines have returned greatly over last year. There are a lot of small dorado this year. Larger fish will always find themselves in areas where there are larger and sufficient bait concentrations. That's not to say there might be commercial boats offshore in those areas.

gdglass
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Back to the past, I took this picture from a 172 in 1967 when we used to land at san carlos airport. Gene Davis, El Paso, Tx GDglass

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johnmoore
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What a great photo, perhaps the oldest one of that area, I have ever seen....Thanks for that.

frankiej
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gene, wow what a great photo!! it is almost distinguishable from today!

JZ
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That photo is bad ass.

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Way KOOL!

Kathy R
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The "good old days"

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Kathy R
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Terrazas above Shangri-La 1988

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frankiej
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kathy, keep them coming!

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Caracol Feb. 1986

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Kathy R
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105# grouper - Feb. 1990 - Clyde Cook aka "Nine Lives" - he had a 14" tin boat and fished Social Security - caught BIG grouper, but never more than one a day - I don't think he weighed more than 105# soaking wet himself.  Every time he'd get one on he'd have to pop a nitrogen tablet under his tongue......................

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Last edited on Sat Aug 19th, 2017 10:52 pm by Kathy R

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That's nitroglycerin that's used to calm down an overstressed heart, and yeah, that grouper would overstress anyone! WOW, what a great catch! Don't think I ever met Clyde Cook; that though, attests to the great fishing we once had right outside the Bahía!

That shot of the Caracol is another great blast from the past! We see Rutherford's Castle up there all alone like they liked it, and down below is the bordello house also all alone. Both are still there, but now surrounded and worth a lot more money!

Last edited on Sat Aug 19th, 2017 11:20 pm by

Kathy R
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Clyde and his wife Edith were staying at Shangri-La before it was really finished setting up.  His brother Charlie and his wife also stayed there.  Charlie's son still has a house in Tecalai.  Clyde caught many grouper in that little tin boat, and didn't quit until 1994 when they just barely got him out of Mexico and into a Tucson hospital before he passed.  

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I remember when Burke was building his house up there. I have a picture somewhere taken 32 years ago, with Burke and his good friend Burl Ives holding my daughter, who was in diapers back then. Not many homes on the Caracol way back then...San Carlos was a lot different.

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Here is a couple of Giant Squid from the '90's

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Last edited on Thu Aug 24th, 2017 04:12 am by Jimmy

Hook
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I will tell you that IF I ever caught a grouper that big, I would let it go. I have a device that can attach to the upper lip of a large grouper that can lower it to a depth where it should survive the air bladder bloating. And it can then be released. For me, anything over 20 kilos, I attempt to return. I have only done it once. Fish that large are so old and so rare, these days. And, according to marine biologists, they continue to reproduce at their advanced age.



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