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 Moderated by: bartmanaz
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Sailboat TIP cancellation  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18th, 2017 02:25 am
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Steverhnm
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Joined: Sat Oct 22nd, 2016
Location: New Mexico USA
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Mana: 
Just a heads up to my fellow sailors and mariners.  When you buy a boat from the local broker here in San Carlos they may be remiss in telling you that YOU need to get the old TIP from the previous owner and get it cancelled before or when you get your new TIP.  


It has been said (not sure how true it is) the previous TIP is adequate until you get your papers.  That may be why they don't cancel it as part of the sale, as it can take weeks or more complete a sales transaction and months to get Coast Guard papers.  However, you should be sure to get the ORIGINAL TIP from the seller and keep it in your possession or ideally on the boat.  My previous owner was not told by the broker either that he was responsible for giving me the TIP, he assumed it was taken care of by the broker.  Hope we can find it....
 
Sooo... I pay my money, do the transaction in the states, which takes quite awhile, get my CG papers (registration - some call it a title).  I am still in the US, because I need to work to pay the bills for a little while longer.  In an effort to comply with Mexico's laws, I then use the new "Banjercito Online TIP Request service to get the new TIP.  Quite easy, quick and painless I must say.  Arrives at my house via DHL.  However, Now there are two TIPs outstanding on the same boat.  Since Mexico did not say anything, I assumed it was free and clear.
 
As I stated in an earlier post on this forum, Fast forward ten years (for my friend).  I have a friend that has this problem as well and the previous owner is nowhere to be found, nor is the previous TIP.  He can't sell his boat because the previous TIP is still outstanding. Interesting.  This has been an adventure for him, and he lost a sale because of it.  At least I am fortunate enough to have access to the previous owner at this time.
 
So just beware, if you buy a boat in Mexico, YOU need to be sure to get the previous owner's TIP and surrender it when you apply for yours.  I will be working on clearing my previous owner's TIP, I will keep you informed on the logistics.  

Oh, by the way, has anyone else had this experience?  If so, how did you handle it?

Last edited on Wed Jan 18th, 2017 02:27 am by Steverhnm

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 Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2017 11:20 pm
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Steverhnm
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Mana: 
So really, 130 views and nobody has ever cancelled a TIP on a large boat?

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 Posted: Thu May 4th, 2017 07:01 pm
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jakmang
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Joined: Wed May 3rd, 2017
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Mana: 
Any updates on this process?  I'm thinking of buying a boat in San Carlos and need to get this right.
I had heard that there was some red tape or illegality about selling boat "in" Mexico.  Typically foreign sales are made technically in another country (i.e. the money changes hands in the US or elsewhere),  but that it is a gray area and could raise questions when changing the TIPs.  I had also heard that it is illegal to have two active TIPs on one boat at the same time.  Any information about this?

As an aside in this process, someone said that you should have a "Captain's Note" from the old owner until the old TIP is cancelled.   This is the same type of permission that might be given to a delivery skipper to say he/she has a right to be sailing the boat.

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 Posted: Fri May 5th, 2017 10:48 pm
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Steverhnm
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Mana: 
First of all, I am not an expert, just a guy that has been through it, sharing info. For expert advice I recommend seeing one of the boat brokers in San Carlos. That being said...

While I am sure it used to be that you could only have one TIP per person, I think they may be changing it.  There should never be two TIPs on one boat.  If you had a handwritten TIP, it is most likely you are not in the computer system but I hear they keep pretty good records down at Banjercito in Guaymas. I know getting a TIP on the Internet, sent to your home via DHL, is extremely easy.  Mexico is getting much more "interconnected" these days via computerization of records.  So if something is on a computer written record, I would be attentive to its "status".  You are responsible for getting the TIP and you can't do it until you have the title transferred to your name. The previous owner is responsible for closing out his old TIP (but you will suffer if he does not). I would suggest he does not close it until you get your clear title and apply for yours and get it. That way the boat is never without a TIP. Give a copy of the TIP to the storage location and keep it on your boat.

Regarding purchasing the boat. If you "purchaser in Mexico" you will be paying an import tax, you won't need a TIP, and I have no clue as to the actual ramifications of being a citizen of a foreign country owning a boat titled in Mexico. I would not do it unless you were living there permanently.

Typically the transaction is performed in the US, between two US citizens, using a US escrow agent, i.e., Pacific Maritime, and the USCG Documentation number transferred to the new owner as part of the title transfer. You get a Captain's letter" in the meantime while the transaction is taking place. It is a transaction in the USA, you take delivery "offshore" (in San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico), keep it offshore for 180 days, and you don't have to pay taxes or register in a state (avoiding state registration fees and taxes. I recommend this route, as they search for liens, and boats are notorious for liens from marinas for unpaid slip or work fees. My boat had liens that were shown as paid (almost $8K) at one point in San Diego. If it get brought to the US and there is a lien, you will be sorry...

Regarding a Captain's Note... Anytime you are captain of a boat on the water and you are not the owner of record, you need a "Maritime Letter of Permission", both in English and Spanish stating you are allowed to have the boat in your possession. Basically it should be both languages on one page, states that "owner of vessel, vessel name, USCG# authorizes (the person using the boat) permission to act as captain, grant full authority to move, repair, or take any other action or use the boat as he/she desires in Mexican water for a period of xx months ending xx date. Signed and dated by owner, preferably notarized. They love official stamps.

It's pretty simple, those are the words almost verbatim from mine. If you are uncomfortable with that, again, a local broker can help. Don't go out without one, the Mexican Navy can and may stop you out there.

So there you have it, if you have additional questions regarding a TIP, I would talk to Silvia at the Marina San Carlos, she is pretty darn savvy on the TIP situation down there, or you can PM me...

Last edited on Fri May 5th, 2017 10:54 pm by Steverhnm

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 Posted: Fri May 12th, 2017 04:04 am
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Blowncar
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Mana: 
I sold my cg documented sportfisher located in lapaz to a Mexican national last year. The broker took my TIP to the port captain and had it canceled of which I got a copy. Boat was sold "offshore". If sold to another American he would have simply taken a bill of sale and forward to cg. After getting his doc he could then apply for new TIP.

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 Posted: Sat Jul 1st, 2017 07:09 pm
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Steverhnm
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Mana: 
I believe that it went so easy for you is because the boat is no longer "imported" it is owned by a Mexican national now, he paid the Mexican VAT taxes.  And among other things the laws seem to vary by interpretation and location at this time.  Glad it worked out for you.

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 Posted: Sat Jul 1st, 2017 07:26 pm
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Steverhnm
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Mana: 
I promised an update when I knew more, here it is.  Probably won't be any more updates unless they change some laws.

Just got back from San Carlos, geez it is hot down there this time of year.  Anyway, I was working on a friends TIP problems and ended up talking with Banjercito in Guaymas. There are a lot of people having problems like my friend (he lost his TIP, and does not have prev owner’s TIP).  Not the lost TIP part, but the "two TIPs on one boat part".  Banjercito shows 2 outstanding TIPs on his boat, one the prev owner, one his.  If you do not have the original TIP with holograms for all outstanding TIPs on that boat, then there is no way currently to cancel those TIPs and allow new ones.  

I asked if you could take it to the border, pay a fine, anything, they said not at this time.  If you don’t have the original hologram TIP, you can’t cancel it, they won’t allow a new one.  My friend is screwed, the marina is asking for his TIP (he lost it), they say if he can’t get it or a new one (not possible cause he can’t cancel the old ones) then he has to get the boat out of the marina – can’t have it in Mexico.  They are starting to get real about this stuff.  Tried to get a new one online and we got called out on it, hoped it might work because his old one was handwritten, thought it might notr be in the computer database - it was - so was the previous owners...
 
As it stands, They tell me I have to take my boat back to the US in 2024 when my TIP expires, cancel both the previous owners (I have the Prev owner's TIP w hologram) and mine at the same time (they won’t/can’t cancel the previous owner's TIP in Guaymas), then they will allow me to request a new tip to extend the stay of my boat for another TIP.  When I sell it, I give my TIP to the new owner (only 1 TIP on HIN now), he can get his (now 2 TIPs on HIN), then has to do what I did… go figure…  

They say the laws were changed a few years ago and the TIP allowance is per the boat HIN, not the person anymore.  They say only 2 TIPs can be open on a boat at one time, i.e., just like our situation.  I can’t sell the boat until I cancel both tips.  Not sure why I can’t check out and surrender the TIPs in Guaymas, but that is what they are telling me, the boat must go to another country before it can come back and have a new TIP after 2 TIPs have been placed on the boat (per HIN).  Hope they change the laws.
 
Banjercito can look up and tell you if there are any other outstanding TIPs on your boat and who has them.  I would call the Banjercito office in Guaymas, as the number on the internet is useless unless you speak Spanish.  They were very helpful, courteous and spent over an hour with me regarding this, I feel they treated me well there.  I did not feel they were there to "bust me on the TIP situation", they were as frustrated as we are.

This is my interpretation of the situation, the advice is worth what you paid for it...  If anyone has better information or corrections, by all means, please share.

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