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Fern
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Any info on paradise airlines?  Are they starting up mid September?

guzzi
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My buddy talked to them and says he's coming and pick him up at the Gauymas airport Oct.15. So I would say yes call them.

Fern
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Do you know their website?   I tried paradise airlines but that wasn't it.  Thanks

Hook
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Another Mexican airline just announced that they will begin flying from Tucson to Hermosillo in October, so this might be some competition for the San Carlos dollar for this new airline.

The Mexican airline is called Aeromar.

http://www.aeromar.com.mx/destinos/

Last I heard, the new start time for the Paradise entity was now October.

guzzi
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Sorry it took so long to answer we aren't in town. My friend called the place in San Carlos and got his flights that way.

Wy Ynot
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If you search Google, Paradise-Air Mexico, it will take you to their Facebook page. Or just go to FB. I think they are "prebooking" flights before opening to public starting around the first of Oct. Ron

Fern
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Still having difficulty getting their schedule and when flights are starting.  I'm

hans
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I still think "Paradise Air" is a Hoak.:X

Hook
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guzzi wrote: Sorry it took so long to answer we aren't in town. My friend called the place in San Carlos and got his flights that way.
So, is your friend still on track to arrive in San Carlos in a week on the Paradise Air entity, Guzzi?
I dont see how they can book flights without a web presence.

guzzi
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We will know for sure no later than monday

guzzi
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Just got off phone with my friend and all went bad. He is getting a refund on his two coupons from PayPal. Now coming down next month. Beware!!

RichD
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Sorry Guzzi. I hope this airline starts flying someday but living in Mexico has made me skeptical. Will believe it when the first plane lands.

Hook
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I believe this Aeromar entity has cut the legs out from under the Paradise entity. 129-149 to fly from Tucson to HMO, RT? It is not that difficult to get cheap, public transportation to and from HMO. Heck, most of us have friends who will pick us up and deliver us to HMO, in their private cars. It's a good reason for them to make a Costco run.

And when HMO finishes that periferico that allows one to avoid Solidaridad, altogether, it will save another 10 minutes in drive time to the airport.

aligato
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FYI, the agreement in question was actually signed in December of 2015, to go into effect August of 2016, me thinks someone is blowing smoke...glad I did not purchase coupons....I booked on Aeromar, need to talk to them directly, unfortunately no English option on their US 1-800 number.. will have to get a Mexican friend to call them I guess...

Last edited on Sun Oct 9th, 2016 06:02 pm by aligato

Limey
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I have been to their web site...posted a few questions...no reply..where is the money? is it being used to fund other projects you are promoting re> Playa Blanca and other real estate projects you are juggling to keep afloat?  I smell  a  Ponzi scam. no bank , no trusts, no accounting for the $$$ people paid in advance to get this "Off the Ground". 
go to their web site...see the responses...you figure it out.

Limey
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UPDATE: We have received notification that our authorization to begin regularly scheduled air service will be announced by Wednesday October 12, 2016. We will provide all information here on the reservation system launch and initial flight date.
Today is the day the truth will be known

kiteboarder
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This was posted on their Facebook page two days ago:

"UPDATE: We have received notification that our authorization to begin regularly scheduled air service will be announced by Wednesday October 12, 2016. We will provide all information here on the reservation system launch and initial flight date."

https://www.facebook.com/Paradise-Air-Mexico-1774076402825379/?fref=ts

happy camper
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Just posted today at FB.

UPDATE: We have received authorization to begin regularly scheduled flights on Nov. 17, 2016. We do have earlier flights approved on a date-by-date basis for those who have submitted travel requests and we will continue to assist you personally on this. Our reservation system, airport gate agreements and operations program are being updated with this initial start date and the reservation system will be ready to launch on or before October 19, 2016. This is the flight date we can take new reservations and does not affect those who have submitted travel requests. If you want to travel prior to the November 17, 2016 date please an email to paradiseairmx@gmail.com or contact our office at +52-622-226-1717 or US 623-240-9819 or visit our office at Plaza El Faro #7 on Blvd Beltrones in San Carlos from Monday-Saturday 9 am - 3 pm.

Fern
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I sure hope this will happen.  I have a bet with my son-in-law -- I bet it will happen before the end of Dec.  He thinks it is a hoax.  I also have a number of friends who would love to come down here if they could fly into Guaymas so I am really, really hoping it will happen.  Plus I will win the bet.  

IronMan
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If I have to hold my tongue any longer, I'll burst! This is the most comical string I have seen since the "new marina" accepting pre-payment for slips in the bahia....really!

happy camper
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Here again the latest directly from them on FB, since most of the rest here is speculations. Time will tell shortly if they are serious, which i believe they are ...


We would like to inform our clients that we have moved to a new office.
Its located in La Plaza Commercial next to Dr.Mike (MDS) Medical Diagnostic Services.(Near Panchito Villa restaurant next to the last gas station to the Extra in front of the Tecate beer store).
We are extremely excited, please come and visit us at our new office and plus to enjoy our restaurant Mimi's K-Fecito you will enjoy the same great service and plus new American style dishes are at your service!!
We are available from 9am-3pm from Monday to Saturday please contact us (622) 226 1717 ;););););)

Hook
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Now, that is a step in the right direction.

As we all know, it isnt easy dealing with Mexican bureaucracy. Maybe that was the reason for all the delays and the reluctance to put much money into offices, telephones and an internet presence.

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I am picking up on a little sarcasm there Hookster.

Hook
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None intended at all.


I would hate to try and start a big business in Mexico. Rules never remain the same; changing from official to official. Hence, the proliferation of the mordida.


I was just suggesting that MAYBE the business was proceeding cautiously until they were finally granted the landing rights, routes they were hoping for. Possibly it dragged on longer than they anticipated.


I hope they make it. It's not like they're flying planes big enough to change the character of San Carlos much. The non-tropical winters will never let SC become much of a tourist mecca, IMO.

Last edited on Wed Oct 19th, 2016 02:41 pm by Hook

Fern
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I met with Frank at thei new Paradise office (next to Dr. Mike's).  They are scheduled to start the flights from Phoenix and Tucson on Nov. 17th.  The flight from Phoenix will be at 11 am and the return to phoenix will return to phoenix at 5 pm.  They are putting together the advertising for that first weekend with a number of events here - Rescate Margarita Welcoming Party, Mark Mulligan and the 6 cowboys from Guaymas and another Friday event.  I'm very, very hopeful now that this will actually be happening.  Keep your fingers crossed.  Smiles, Fern

long time resident
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Any idea about the flights from Tucson, and how much they will cost?

Hook
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long time resident wrote: Any idea about the flights from Tucson, and how much they will cost?
Good question. I have heard figures ranging from 150-350, RT.

If they are starting on Nov 17th, they may be building in an American Thanksgiving "surcharge". Most airlines have higher rates around Am T-giving.

So, the rates for their first flights may not be overly indicative.

Someone I know looked into rates on Aeromar. between Xmas and NYE. Though they have been quoting 129-149 in October, RT from Tucson-HMO was around 350, during that time period.

Last edited on Wed Oct 19th, 2016 06:24 pm by Hook

Fern
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You can call their office....226-1717.

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I checked on fares  from Tucson to Hermosillo in January and fare was $143 for one way.

Fern
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japasp wrote: I checked on fares  from Tucson to Hermosillo in January and fare was $143 for one way.My understanding is you can get a coupon at their office for 250. Dos round trip.

RichD
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First flight is scheduled in 5 days. Hope it is successful. Still a little skeptical till that first flight touches down.

Fern
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I'm told they will have two flights in Nov. - Thursdays and Sundays.  And 4 flights starting in Dec.  It might be too late to get the coupons for $250.  Go to their office in the MD Diagnostic Plaza to get information or make reservations for flights.

monty
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Does anyone have info as to what time the inaugural flight touches down in Guaymas?

RichD
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Website says the first flight starts in Guaymas I guess we will know if the plane is here and takes off.

 Monty http://imexicotravel.com/travel-request/

Attached Image (viewed 248 times):

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Last edited on Sun Nov 13th, 2016 10:14 pm by RichD

Richard Baca
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IMO it doesn't make sense to dead head to Guaymas to start the work day then end back in Guaymas and on the third day start again in Guaymas. Is the plane then on the ground in Guaymas between work days? If there are any mechanical or maintenance issues wouldn't it make more sense to rest in Phoenix? Or are they dead heading again?

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If it's an early CRJ200, it may have been purchased fairly reasonably and therefore it's owners can justify it's partial utilization. If that's the case, then perhaps parking and service are much cheaper in GYM than Sky Harbor.
*edited for grammar

Last edited on Mon Nov 14th, 2016 02:45 pm by odwyerpw

Bullshipper
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fyi, I flew Hmo Lax Hmo last week for $290 on areomexico

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I remember when the flights would leave Phx, stop in Tucson, pick up more people, head to Guaymas, pick up and drop off passengers, go on to La Paz, do the same, head back to Guaymas and then Tucson and then Phx. Once a day. I guess it was a puddle jumper, but it was always full, and made sense to offer the variety. Kept the plane full, the price of tickets affordable.

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Maybe they know something we don't?

Last edited on Mon Nov 14th, 2016 04:15 pm by long time resident

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As I remember also, LTR. Maybe they don't something, we don't. History!

johnmoore
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The day is upon us. Good luck to those that purchased coupons and good luck to Paradise Air.

Richard Baca
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I went to their office at 11:45 AM today 11/16/16, and it was closed. They also have some sort of coffee shop there, but it too was closed. With the inaugural flight set for tomorrow I'd think they would be shouting from the rooftops!

johnmoore
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Did it show up???

Hook
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Did it take off?

Richard Baca
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No cigar today. I stopped by the office/coffee shop and was told that the reason for not today was that they couldn't obtain gate space in Phoenix. Well, I don't buy it because I have it independently verified that they had (and presumably still have) ICE permission. So anyway, now the inaugural flight is set for this coming Sunday at 9:00 AM Guaymas to Phoenix... and they REALLY mean it this time"!" Curiously though, it's no longer a CalJet aircraft. Now it's "FlyMex" from Toluca... so go figure.
http://www.flymex.aero/

Last edited on Thu Nov 17th, 2016 09:55 pm by

Richard Baca
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I spoke to my PHX contact yesterday. He tells me that all international flights come in to gates B-22 to B-30 and that there is NEVER a "full" situation or completely all reserved. These are the gates that all lead to the ICE Port of Entry and baggage claim so, the "no gate space at PHX" excuse for not flying on Thursday is basically a non-sequitur. I still think it can happen Sunday because they do have ICE permission, (just not a specific date). It's supposed to be with a MexFly airplane instead of the promised CalJet CRJ 200, so vamos a ver...... 

aligato
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So if the problem was in Phoenix, why did the Tucson portion not go either??? I smell fish, anyone else????

Hook
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"Hey, Rockie, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"


"But that trick never works."


"This time, for sure, PRESTO!"

bachrachj
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We've got a friend who is interested in coming down by air. We hear great things about Tufesa. Will probably just rely on them and skip the waiting/wondering game.

bachrachj
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PS "Nuthin' up my sleeve!"

guzzi
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Well today is the day they fly....................any bets. Hope they make it this time.

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Any updates on whether it happened today, Sunday??

buckster
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I seen an airliner land about 10 this morning. I don't know if it was the right plane but it came from the north.

Kiwi
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Well, did it or didn't it??????

Caroline
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I'm going into their office later today since my family is scheduled to fly here on Thanksgiving. I didn't sleep last night wondering if our family holiday will be screwed up by this situation. I will post what I find out, good, bad or indifferent. Boy do I hope this works out because too many people have been hurt in Mexico by weird situation. I have lived here full time for 10 years and have been lucky so I don't want to buy into the conversations of the negative people who always say the sky is falling. I'm going straight to the source and then will know for sure what I am dealing with. My family hardly ever comes down here because it is not simple so they will not take it easily if things don't work out for Thursdays flight.

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We're about the same. Only go North for special occasions and once a year medical check ups. Kids and grandkids would come down for one to two weeks when there were reasonably priced flights to Guaymas before they quit. Time and cost both have prevented many visits the last 6 or 7 years. We also bought more than a few advance tickets. So far I keep the faith. Please post here as George has locked the other thread due to free advertising. I will try to get by there as well and post. Ron/Ynot

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No news on their Facebook Page about any inaugural flight occurring yesterday (Sunday). Only a new post today (Monday) announcing ticket sales for December flights.

Caroline
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Today is a Mexican Holiday so their office is closed but I will go there tomorrow and post whatever Frank says.

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I have family needing to fly down for Christmas so I am very concerned --- sure hope it happens.  

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I have a husband to fly to Tucson for medical treatment. It's too painful for him to make the long ride back with me in my truck, so I'm really hoping the flights start up.

Hook
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390pony wrote: I have a husband to fly to Tucson for medical treatment. It's too painful for him to make the long ride back with me in my truck, so I'm really hoping the flights start up.
Can he make it to Hermosillo? There are flights on Aeromar from HMO to Tucson.

Wy Ynot
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We went by as well and closed for holiday. We were also informed that no boats or boating from Marina Real the 23rd. Marines are everywhere over there. Top of hotel and a pretty large camp as well. Not to rob this thread but does anyone know if he or they will be speaking to the public? Where or when?? Ron

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Hook wrote: 390pony wrote: I have a husband to fly to Tucson for medical treatment. It's too painful for him to make the long ride back with me in my truck, so I'm really hoping the flights start up.
Can he make it to Hermosillo? There are flights on Aeromar from HMO to Tucson.
That is an option we may have to take.  I'm headed down on Wednesday, and coming back to Tucson on December 6th.  Hopefully, Paradise will have its act together by then.

aligato
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From these threads, I am assuming Sunday was another no go...

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George Gadsby pulled some stuff with me one too many times. I am through with Viva San Carlos.

I too am keeping the faith, and losing sleep because I have San Carlos Music Festival coming up Dec 9 & 10! Have had to re-route some folks with Aeromar and they are pretty reasonable. Hermosillo is OK, but I am really praying for flights in/out of Guaymas Airport. I will keep everyone posted here when developments occur.

Last edited on Tue Nov 22nd, 2016 06:44 pm by LeslieS

Bullshipper
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cheaper and faster if they walk

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I talked to the office people today.  They will Definitely be flying 3 days a week in Dec.  Not sure about the rest of Nov.  

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hahahahahahaha that's a good one Fern

Hope it's true but so many lies from them.

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So, did they fly on Sunday, or not?

Caroline
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Today after chatting with their office folks at Paradise Air it seems clear to me they have everything lined up for December 1st. My family made other arrangement for Thanksgiving day rather than risk no flights being available. I am willing to see what happens in December and really hope it all comes together because we do need reasonably priced flights into Guaymas. I for one am keeping the faith another few weeks.;)

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I gave them the benefit of the doubt the last three times, all with assurances from their "front office". The owner refuses to come forward with any concrete progress reports and now it's all up in the air again, so as for me, strike three and yer out!!

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I agree with Richard. A quality company does not treat customers or potential customers in this manner. Given their track record so far, they are a Show Me story not a Tell me story and that applies to safety in the utmost.
Should they every begin flying, I would wait at least a month and see how they do safety wise first and on time a distant second.

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FlyMex of Toluca Mexico.Mmmmmmm?

odwyerpw
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If they are still flying the CRJ200 from CalJet, well good old fashion economics are a factor. It's always hard to come by hard data on Direct Operating Costs. Used to be able to find this info easily on https://www.transportation.gov/ , but it's harder to locate it now.

However, Atlantic Southwest published it's Direct Operating Costs in 2001 to the DOT for it's CRJ200 operations.. The figure was $1,170 usd an hour (block hour of flight) back in the day.

(DOT source document is now missing, my info is a summary from http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103513) Block hour costs are broken down to crew costs, fuel/oil, rentals, depreciation, insurance, taxes, direct maintenance and maintenance burden (time lost to a plane going tech or loss of revenue to C&D checks).

Block Hour costs assume a depreciation schedule of 20 years on an airframe, though some began to grow that to 25 years. Not sure what a depreciation schedule would look like for a well used plane. Depreciation might be a smaller number nowadays for a CRJ200 if it receives allot of use.. if it's lightly used than that depreciation is spread across fewer hours, meaning higher block costs.

They are no doubt wet leasing (someone else's plane/crew/etc...) so those cost would be higher than a direct operator like Atlantic Southwest. And then take into account inflation from 2001. I hope they can pull it off.

Regardless of how their math works, they have real costs each time that guy flies... (here's an interesting document from 2015 on regional jet economics: https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/media/183553/crj200_embraer_145_operating_costs_aircraft_operating_costs.pdf .)

Last edited on Thu Nov 24th, 2016 12:07 am by odwyerpw

buckster
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The plane that flew over my house the other day just flew over my house and turned on final to the airport. I think they are in business. I is a pretty blue jet

odwyerpw
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Tomorrow will be the day.. Dec 1st. First flight.

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I have the tickets and confirmation!!!!!!   


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 Fern, what time is the plane landing in San Carlos, we may come out and watch? Thanks.

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If it does, it will be Gym, not SC.

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It is to arrive at 12:35 from Phoenix.  And at 2:30 from Tucson.  To Guaymas.

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Do they have two planes?

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 Thanks for the info.

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They have one plane - it overnights in Guaymas, leaves here at 9 am to P.hoenix, back to Guaymas, then up to Tucson, back to Guaymas, then to Phoenix

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There was no Paradise Air flight today. The SC office doesn't know when either. Sorry Fern.

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I stopped by today and they told me it was just another little detail. That it would be fixed by management. They did not say what happened or when they would fly. She said they were booked solid the last 2 weeks of Dec. Sorry, couldn't get any more?? Ron

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We stopped by the office this morning and the gentleman in the office said "everyone" was in the rest room and not available.  And he also said he knew "nothing"!!   

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Was his name Sgt. Schultz?

lasninas
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To be honest I would be a bit wary of flying on an airline that is this disorganized.  

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I remember Bob Newhart talking about the Grace L. Ferguson airline and storm door company.

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When's the next "scheduled" flight for this airline-on-paper?

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They have a reservation site that says they are flying Thursday, the 8th. http://imexicotravel.com/reservations/reservations-december-2016/

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My inclination to be skeptical and cynical is starting to be drowned out by my inclination to root for the underdog.

C'mon man, let's fly. Let's do this thing.

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Okay, I'll bite; what kind of and whose equipment are they flying?

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Richard, A good, positive, Christmas Spirit Wish.

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Yes Cratchit, excellent idea! 

Last edited on Thu Dec 8th, 2016 03:45 am by IronMan

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You know what is interesting:  some people who call the man and say they are going because they have a reservation and a coupon, he will tell them to meet a taxi, or whatever, here in SC or at the airport and he will send them to Hermosillo and then give them a ticket to Phoenix, only Phoenix, not Tucson on I think it's America West.  Don't know what the ticket cost but between that and the taxi service I would think it would exceed the 250.00 coupon on Paradise Air. Now, how long can he do this without running out of money or are the maquillas (twin plants) really guaranteeing  a percentage of the seating and he's operating on that.  The whole thing is a mystery or whatever but they've had plenty of time to get all the "kinks" ironed out and the excuses are not valid anymore.  They are "missing the boat" because the road from Hermosillo down is terrible as we all know and I would think that people would hop on a plane just so they wouldn't have to drive it.  

TheColoradoDude
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Ponziair?

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Paperplane!

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Today's the 8th. Isnt another flight scheduled for today?

Nice that we have a site where we can talk about all this. Thanks, Bart!

Viva has gone "pay-to-play" for any info of interest to the community, if it involves a business.

odwyerpw
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Nothing on their FB Page... Just the photo of Peña's pretty Boeing 787-800 in Guaymas from the 23rd of Nov.

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The only departures from Guaymas yesterday were two private airplanes.
 http://flightaware.com/live/airport/MMGM


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I called Frank Jackson, the president of Paradise Air yesterday. I said I need to buy a return ticket for my son to get to Hernosillo from Phoenix since you appear not to be flying for his arrival/return into Guaymas. What is the likelihood that Paradise Air will be bringing my son in on the 22 of December? He said he was in Phoenix ultimating the details for a gate in Phoenix. It'll be gate 4. He assured me that they will be having three flights: 12/22, 12/26 and 12/28/16. Good enough for me, but don't know about the future.


Kiwi
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Goldin:  I hope for your sake and your sons that the information is correct because the "gate" excuse came up months ago.  I wonder how many people have given up on all of this and "cashed in"

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This was posted on Viva a couple of minutes ago and now has been removed.  Maybe George removed it but it is GONE.
Here is what was said by Goldin.  Hope I am not overstepping the line by copying and pasting this info.  Seem important for us "Waiting for Paradise Air" folks.
I called Frank Jackson, the president of Paradise Air yesterday. I said I need to buy a return ticket for my son to get to Hermosillo from Phoenix since you appear not to be flying for his arrival/return into Guaymas. What is the likelihood that Paradise Air will be bringing my son in on the 22 of December? He said he was in Phoenix ultimating the details for a gate in Phoenix. It'll be gate 4. He assured me that they will be having three flights: 12/22, 12/26 and 12/28/16. Good enough for me, but don't know about the future.

We will see what happens.

goldin
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I saw my Viva post removed. It's not the first time. Per George Paradise Air did not want to pay for ads. Thus, Viva won't tolerate any related postings. 

goldin
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Kiwi, I believe these three flights will fly. My rationale is that PA has money secured by the purchase of coupons. They have a lot of customers flying for the holidays. In order probably not to lose the coupon proceeds, they have chartered these three flights only. Don't know what type of planes, etc and I don't know if theyll stick to the original flight schedule times.Hoping for the best.

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I have my daughter and grandkids coming down on the 22nd of Dec.  I was told by the woman at the Paradise office that Frank has arranged to have a private jet plane bring the passengers down if their flights are not up and running.  We all want this to work.

Fern
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George is losing a lot of people and money for Alex by his refusal to only put what he wants on the site in a "pay or play" policy.  I've left the site for good and know of several others who have done the same.  Even though I paid a membership fee for a year, George blocked me from posting unless he edited it.  Adios Viva!

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Monitoring both boards allows me to see more sides of the issues. I understand about asking business to advertise and I do pay my annual dues directly to Alex. But I am interested in everything going on it SC and not just by a business that advertises. People's opinions and experiences are an important part of making purchase decisions for me so I want as much info as possible. I'm still hoping Paradise Air can pull it off. My family will use it alot.

aligato
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Caroline, There is no such thing as Gate 4 in Phoenix. There is a terminal 4 (which is the international terminal) these gates are labeled B1 to about B15, this information comes from an International Commercial Airline Pilot who flew into Phoenix many times.

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I certainly hope that Paradise Air can resolve any outstanding issues and commence service to Guaymas/San Carlos. I invite Mr Jackson or a designated representative to join our board and provide current information on the status of their service.

Bart

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Yes I know the Phoenix airport very well.  I lived in Phoenix for 12 years and traveled everywhere for my job at Schwab.
This whole thing is giving me a headache so I'm done worrying about it.
If it happens great if it doesn't too bad for us and those who bought prepaid coupons.

aligato
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Maybe it is time to lobby Aero Califia to run more flights to Hermosillo and at better times, currently they go twice a week (according to their website) but the HMO GYM part of the flight leaves HMO at 7am so no connections possible.

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Caroline wrote: . I'm still hoping Paradise Air can pull it off.
Perhaps they already have....like the "prepaid slips in the new marina", "San Carlos Golf Towers" https://www.youtube.com/user/rcameron68, or the famous unfinished second tower next to the Hotel Playa SC?

Limey
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AND ....We all Believe in Santa Claus ! ! !

Caroline
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Limey, guess what there is occasionally some magic that happens in life so don't give up so easily. Santa Claus, I don't know about that but I do know happiness comes to me when I think positive thoughts and remain hopeful.

I wish the same for you.;)

IronMan
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Positive thoughts, your prepaid ticket, and an actual plane is all you need to fly like your dreams!
Ho, Ho, Ho!

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I talked with Frank Jackson last week.  He is working hard to make it happen.  He told me that if the people who had purchased the pre-paid coupons wanted a refund, he would refund their purchase price plus 1 1/2% per month interest from the time of purchase.  I'm like Caroline, keeping my fingers crossed that it will all work out.  Family is scheduled in on the 22nd.  

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With the Mexican Christmas/New Year vacation starting next week, (Friday 12/16 is actually their last work day of the year), I don't expect any progress on this venture until next year.

Limey
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Santa Claus is coming to Town ??? Thanks caroline

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Ok - moving forward - the last info I've received.  Frank has a charter jet plane for December and January - 3 days a week - I'm promised that my family will be coming down on that flight on the 22nd.  Then they will start the commercial flights.  Regulations can get in the way of progress at times.  Let's be positive and keep our fingers crossed that we will be getting commercial flights into Guaymas.  Feliz Navidad!!!!!!!

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Frank and Paradise has been nothing but straight up with me, and made good on all the flights I needed to make. Looking forward to not needing to drive to Hermosillo to fly, but must say Aeromar rocks! I'm sure when Paradise Air is up in the air and going they will rock even harder.

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What have you heard about the specific gate number? I know it'll leave from terminal4, the international terminal. Also, what about the visa requirement. The PA office told me my son needed to present a passport, a copy of the pic page of the passport and a visa. Typically, the visa is given, and filled during the flight, by the airline. What happens when it's a private charter?

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I've tried to receive my refund for over two weeks, nothing yet, only creative excuses!! Folks....good luck getting your refunds back. Paradise Air is a scam!!:(

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Hopefully you paid with credit card or PayPal. If so call them and they will get your refund for.

ezmony
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Well is there ANY news?

I just can't let "sleeping dogs lie"

Is the 22nd on?

lasninas
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Perhaps there is a way to call the Phoenix airport and ask about a list of airlines/charters that are flying out of their airport.  Just thinking of other alternatives than contacting the same people that consistently lack follow through.   I doubt that I would ever fly with them based on what I have seen so far.  Sounds very dicey.

Hook
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chevy wrote: I've tried to receive my refund for over two weeks, nothing yet, only creative excuses!! Folks....good luck getting your refunds back. Paradise Air is a scam!!:(
I cant imagine that it is a scam, really. At least not one where the guy takes your money and flees. Others have been refunded money.
Frank has been rather prominent in town for many years in other capacities. And his wife/GF just leased space for a new restaurant in town, and has it open. This just doesnt seem to be the MO of someone who is scamming the town. He's too high profile. His other investments in town would suffer.
Hey, it may not work out. But I believe he is making an honest attempt at getting it, well, off the ground, so to speak.

odwyerpw
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If you've ever started or expanded a business in Mexico than you can appreciate how much Frank is wrestling with, especially since he has the 'international reach' element as part of the scope.

I hope they succeed. 

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Wow, they are not flying tomorrow.  I know quite a few people that were leaving here and some with families coming in so I think there are a lot of unhappy people out there.  So many people had planned on tomorrow/ the 22nd.  I think "Frank" had better not say anything anymore until he positively has a schedule and I can't imagine what the excuse was this time. 

chevy
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What did you think? Frank has missed every schedule so far and will never fly! He also has refused to refund me my prepaid coupons. I've tried for three weeks to get a refund!! Nothing but excuses or more correctly...lies!!!

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Talking about unhappy... We just travelled eight miserable hours in the rain, in the dark to get to Tucson. Tomorrow we travel the additional hours to the Phoenix airport to pick up our son. Pretty miserable way to spend Xmas. AND we had to spend an additional $550 for a one way ticket HMO-Phoenix. Hot a happy camper.

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I have been to their web site...posted a few questions...no reply..where is the money? is it being used to fund other projects you are promoting re> Playa Blanca and other real estate projects you are juggling to keep afloat? I smell a Ponzi scam. no bank , no trusts, no accounting for the $$$ people paid in advance to get this "Off the Ground".
go to their web site...see the responses...you figure it out.

this was a post 3 months ago... ???Still believe in Santa Claus ??

Hook
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I dont believe in Santa Claus, but I do believe in the free exchange of information about this topic. It's really great we can do this on this forum.


A firm's Facebook page is not an unbiased place to ask questions, share information. They can simply choose to ignore you or delete your questions.

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I work for the airlines and I am based in Phoenix. Here are a few answers to some of the myths on this post. -Currently, terminal 4 is the only international terminal. Gates are not pre-assigned and can be used by all airlines. You do not have to depart for an international destination from these gates, just arrivals are required to use them(except certain arrivals from Canada.)-Paradise Air has no ticket counter at the airport.-We have a great tool that employees use. It shows us ALL airlines, destinations and travel dates. There is nothing for Paradise Air.-Contrary to popular belief, airlines don't cancel flights due to lack of passengers. If you say you are going to have a flight operate on certain days, they have to operate a certain percentage of them or the FAA can and will take action.
Those are the facts. Now, in my opinion, this isn't going to happen. Ticket counters aren't built in a day. I'd the flights were scheduled, they would show up in our program. They aren't. There are no baggage carts, tugs, or other supporting ground equipment with their name on it at the airport. I would never buy tickets for this "airline."

lasninas
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Thank you Quagmire.  It pays to go to the source.  

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Frank's Wife has a Restaurant in Town ??? in think there is the Airplane. I would board the Plaine at that Restaurant !!

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edale99
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Where can I buy tickets for the new airline??????

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99...i will sell you mine..

nice guy
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Will you take Monopoly money? Instead of Boardwalk - the game could have an airport and real plastic planes.

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The office is by Dr. Leux's MD Diagnostic Center, next to Pancho Villa's Restaurant.  My family has arrived - I'm a happy camper.  

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I'm happy too that my son is here, but we went through hell to get him. Drove 8 hrs in the pouring rain to get to Tucson on Wednesday. Then to Phoenix the next morning to pick him up. It took us NINE hours to get to SC after Nogales. The extra five hours in the bumper to bumper HERMOSILLO road construction track. It's was the scariest, nerve wracking, disorienting trip I've ever made. Never again...

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What was the excuse they gave this time for not flying?  Just curious

goldin
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Here's the email I got from Frank:
"Greetings Unfortunately,  DOT did not issue the final waiver for the charter to pick up passengers in Phoenix for your flight tomorrow. We are more them overwhelmed with this issue and are looking for options. We looked on American Airlines and every seat is booked. You can book on Friday to Hmo, we will transport you free, reimburse your ticket and give an additional coupon or refund part all of your coupons."

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Happy New Year everyone...Keep sending your donations and positive posts on the $$$ BEST SCAM $$$ of San Carlos...and be sure to pre pay for a condo under construction..just my honest opinion

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I think this People should be Reportet to the Mexican Autorities !

johnmoore
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I may be a bit naïve, but I do not think this is a scam. I think the bite has been more than can be chewed, at this time. They have not "gone away" they still appear to be making some effort. Tough call.

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I agree with Hans - it's not a scam and Frank has been working very hard to negotiate between several US and MX departments to start a new airline.  Not an easy task.  I saw where plenty of money is going into their Mexican bank account to cover passengers costs for this past week.  Keep the faith that this will eventually happen.

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I've been trying to get a refund from Frank for a month now. He has emailed me 3 fake receipts showing payment!! The only problem is, no payment or deposit was made to my account. He has every excuse in the book for why the refund did not go thru and a new date in which I will be paid. Kind of like his Paradise Air flight schedule excuses. He is a scam!! Let me know if anyone has received a refund. He really should be reported to the authorities. I've never heard so many excuses (lies) why my refund wasn't competed!!! He's definitely a con man!!! :X:X

guzzi
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My friend got a refund from him sort of. Frank lied to him also. About his plane tickets saying he was booked on the flight but would not send him the conformation and then about when he was supposed to get the refund. Luckily he had paid with PayPal who refunded his money. Then PayPal when after frank I guess. You should always pay with credit card or something like PayPal so you have some protection.

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John..and Fern...Lets start the New Year out properly..Get your head out of the clouds...We have all been had.. Yes Frank has had some NEGOTIATION problems, I am sure of it...he can't give a clear answer to his ticket holders...He certainly can't negotiate with the FFA,Mexican authorities,or even a contracted Charter group for his latest crime...Keeping your Christmas Gifts..

johnmoore
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Limey, you are right, head in clouds, can lead to some real problems. Sure glad head not in clouds, when it came to buying tickets from an airline "trying to establish routes", in a less than friendly atmosphere.

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i agree with post #148! i don't think this was an intentional scam!  it does have all the earmarks of poor if any business administrative skills!
i have seen this happen here in san carlos many times,  especially with restaurants!

to properly startup a international airline. you would have first had to have a large amount of start up money!  probably over a couple of million or more of your money, just to secure;
* business tax identification numbers in both countries
* business addresses in both countries
* phone numbers in both countries
* bank accounts in both countries
* the leases of the planes and terminal areas 
so i agree he bite off more than he could chew!!!

Last edited on Mon Jan 2nd, 2017 04:07 pm by frankiej

Limey
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SHOW ME THE $$$.. there has been no accounting for the $$$
Unless you count the New Resturant they opened...and still "No Free Lunch"

TheColoradoDude
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Limey wrote: SHOW ME THE $$$.. there has been no accounting for the $$$
Unless you count the New Resturant they opened...and still "No Free Lunch"
What is the name of the restaurant?

JZ
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goldin wrote: I'm happy too that my son is here, but we went through hell to get him. Drove 8 hrs in the pouring rain to get to Tucson on Wednesday. Then to Phoenix the next morning to pick him up. It took us NINE hours to get to SC after Nogales. The extra five hours in the bumper to bumper HERMOSILLO road construction track. It's was the scariest, nerve wracking, disorienting trip I've ever made. Never again...
You went at the wrong time.  Just made it to the border in 4hrs.

guzzi
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The restaurant is Mimi's

frankiej
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Limey wrote: Happy New Year everyone...Keep sending your donations and positive posts on the $$$ BEST SCAM $$$ of San Carlos...and be sure to pre pay for a condo under construction..just my honest opinion
does anyone know how many prepaid tickets where sold?
a lot of gas is being thrown on this fire by comments stating, $$$ BEST SCAM $$$.
10 tickets X $250. = $2,500. USD
50 tickets X $250. = $12,500. USD
100 tickets X $250. = $25,000. USD
that really doesn't sound like the $$$ BEST SCAM $$$ to me!

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I know several people that bought 10 and 20 coupons so can put it over the 50 bought but not sure of the right number.  Don't forget the maquilas (twin plants) that were going to guarantee 50% of the seats...........was that paid or not and then there is the local businesses that bought ads for an in-light magazine and I think those are for airlines not charters. There is more to this than meets the eye but he is definitely out of his league and the excuses he gives proves that. The restaurant did not cost much at all.....been there done that.  How can he put people in a shuttle and send them to Hermosillo and then put them on American to Phoenix.........over 500.00 and the coupons they have are only 250.00. ? The difference is coming from somewhere..........he's been at this for a while and it's not getting any better. 

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Limey was "right on", but I feel sorry for all the "head in cloud" folks that purchased these coupons. If one has spent anytime in Mexico, you would vet a new restaurant with more vigor than was given to vetting this new start-up venture here in Guaymas/SC. That is not to say, the people involved in the start up are not culpable. I hope the purchasers of these coupons will have the opportunity for a refund, no matter what the circumstances of the Airline are......good luck.

frankiej
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johnmoore wrote: Limey was "right on"
john, what revelations changed your mind???????

johnmoore
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Oh, did I ever goof, it was Fern and I with our head in the clouds.....never changed my mind, just using the limes parody...meaning, anyone that bought coupons, had their head in the clouds...still don't think it is/was a scam.

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i have several questions for those who purchased prepaid tickets.
* where there ever DOT, FAA, documents displayed?
* where there mexican documents displayed?
* was a business plan offered for review?
* was a financial statement offered for review?
* was a copy of the agreement with maquiladoras shown?
CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Wy Ynot
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Frank, I saw none of the documents. I guess I just used my old trust, belief, and "wanna see it happen" mechanisms. I probably bought right up there in the most category of coupons. Still have my fingers crossed, another olden time thought process?? Just thought our kids might get a chance to visit more. Ron

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Every one who has purchased ADVANCE tickets should go to the resturant , order everything on the menu, take all your friends too... and when the check is presented tell them you are ordering in advance and will pay later..JA JA

odwyerpw
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These folks own Playa Blanca? They are also attempting to simultaneously start an Airline and a Restaurant?

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I went to Paradises office today to inquire about my refund. They now have a form you fill out. The ladies are not there, but we'll be back tomorrow. The guy there had NO answers for any questions. The second line in the form is to choose if you want a reimbursement or refund. Besides it meaning the same thing, I think their intent is to define whether you want cash or credit. They ask for your credit card number or your routing number. The guy there said the refunds will be processed this week!!! Good luck to all.

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To the best of my knowledge they do not own Playa Blanca but there may be a marketing/sales tie in.

Bart

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Go to the Office of Profeco, they are also specialiced if a Foreign Customers  that have that Kind of Problems in Mexico.
You will get fast a Refund or those People are in realy deep S.....t.

Last edited on Thu Jan 5th, 2017 01:16 am by hans

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Bart is correct. Playa Blanca is owned by the Llano family. 

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hans wrote: Go to the Office of Profeco, they are also specialiced if a Foreign Customers  that have that Kind of Problems in Mexico.
You will get fast a Refund or those People are in realy deep S.....t.


Profeco,,,,,, Mexico's Consumer Protection Agency. Hans has always had good information. 

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IronMan wrote: If I have to hold my tongue any longer, I'll burst! This is the most comical string I have seen since the "new marina" accepting pre-payment for slips in the bahia....really!Just looking back on my post #20 in October...I think the most entertaining part (from the outside, waiting to see if this ever became an option for me!) is the "pre-payment" plan. How many who did that had ever made a similar "investment" and what prompted them to do it this time?

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Best "Soap Opera" I've seen/read in years.

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Was passing through the TUS airport this week. No gates or ticket counters for Paradise Air. Asked my airline friends and they said that they have never heard of it. On another note, Aeromar has a really nice ticket counter and actually saw one of their aircraft. Flights out of TUS start at about $143.

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Ballenamar, I thought the LLanos invested at the end in the Playa Blanca project. Did they end of owning it outright or are there other owners as well.

I believe the people at Mimi´s Restaurant had the restaurant or worked at the restaurant in Playa Blanca but had nothing to do with hotel ownership as Ballenamar said.

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Aeromar is AMAZEBALLS from counter to baggage. Flown three times personally and all were terrific flights. However, their website and telephone reservations suck. Can be purchased on Expedia.com but the advertised cheap seat prices don't show up there (Expedia fees?) The demand for an airline coming here has already been demonstrated. Saw in the news that Southwest Airlines is expanding it's Mexican service . . . but in recent months had to cancel 40 flights because of paperwork delays.

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I saw that article about Southwest problems and cancelled flights.
Generally it is NOT easy to negotiate some businesses in Mexico and when you are dealing with the FAA and the bureaucracy on both sides of the border I'm sure it is a challenge.
All I can say is, if Southwest a big and experienced airline is having problems with flights to and from Mexico how easy would it be as a startup to get it done.
No excuses for Paradise Air,  but I suspect it is so much more complicated than imagined toget it going.
With the major airlines interest in Mexico now, I also wonder how much negative pressure they are exerting against Paradise Air.

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If you reserved tickets and the fuel for your airplane just went up, do you think it is profitable for them to to fly now at the old ticket prices?

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Gringos are a gullible breed,  I had some other choice words but, you can imagine what they were, so they were deleted for the sake of the easily offended. 
JaJaJa
Viva Rojas   

Last edited on Fri Jan 6th, 2017 11:56 pm by Jimmy

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Unless/Until you have lost thousands or even tens of thousands of $$$ to pay for your Mexico Experience you are still a Novice Gringo in Mexico! 

johnmoore
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Jimmy, is kinda right. Many "gringo's" leave their brains at the border when they head south. Many don't.

odwyerpw
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So have these guys promised any flights in January? Are they giving up? Again nothing on their facebook since Nov 22nd.. and that was just a photo of Peña's 787 in Guaymas.
It's strange. An employee at PHX airport (Sky Harbor) told me these guys (Paradise-Air) recently purchased space on a billboard at 40th & Airlane to advertise the service oddly enough.

Last edited on Tue Jan 10th, 2017 03:16 am by odwyerpw

wcedge
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WHERE IS FRANK???

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PROBABLY ....RUNNING....certainly noy FLYING...Yes, i will now take the Monopoly Money....

Limey
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https://youtu.be/ZgubG-MOPT4

johnmoore
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I have not gone back to check and read all the posts on this thread. Is there anyway to know, how many "coupons" were bought, and what kind of monies these purchases represent?

Kiwi
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He's probably taking  classes in Air-flight 101 to learn the difference between a "chartered" flight (very expensive) and an actual "scheduled flight airline" If he's only going to schedule 3 times a week this is going to be a problem.  It can be done but not easily.

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Frank sent an email that he's had trouble accessing the money account. He said he'll be here this week to pay out.

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??? cause there is no money left in the account ???

Kiwi
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Whoops, I've been on the fence on this one like a few hoping that he could figure out something ......he's had long enough.  After what Goldin just posted that explains a lot....I'm off the fence and  shaking my head as if someone else tries this they will not get any support.  We need airline service in Guaymas bad especially with all the road construction but looks like it's not going to happen for a while.  I hope all the people get their money back. To bad Califa can't participate with his Cessna Caravans .....that's the ideal ticket.....forget jets for now. 

johnmoore
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limey, how many coupons did you purchase?

johnmoore
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limey, I will alter my question, did you buy any coupons?

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Is anyone posiing here left holding coupons? Would you like to sell them cheap?

johnmoore
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Just figured out who "VisitorSanCarlos" is.......Frank!!

VisitorSanCarlos
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Is anyone posiing here left holding coupons? Would you like to sell them cheap?.. Not Frank but the offer is still open

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vistorsancarlos, who are you?? why would you want to make such an investment?

Maggy
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I seem to,remember that over 300 coupons were sold.I have 7 coupons that I will want to be Reimbursted for... Frank also said that all the moneys from the purchased coupons would be going to a special account that would not be touched until  the coupons were actually redeemed .Have we been scammed??????

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Investment. Do you want to sell yours maggy

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visitor, why all the mystery????????

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Visitor, I would say that if you are in the market for these coupons, the price would be at a premium, not cheaper....

Wy Ynot
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I will let mine go cheap, $250. USD each. That would be discounting interest I would have drawn from last May. As many here, only thinking family would get here a little more often? Ron

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San Carlos market open for trading !!!

Is this a first - Junk Bond trading :)

Good luck.

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almost 19,000 hits on this thread! 
read post # 181,  jimmy summed it up best!

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Ron, I'll give you 50c on the dollar if you feel the coupons are worthless that would be a good deal for you and for me. How many do you want to sell?

Wy Ynot
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Thanks, I'll decline. Let the power that be run it's course. I'm in for 8. Vamos a ver un milagro!!  I'm still a believer in basic good human nature. Guess I think they're not worthless. Double your offer and I'll get serious and you may be getting a great deal?? Ynot

Last edited on Wed Jan 11th, 2017 06:21 pm by Wy Ynot

odwyerpw
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This might even be better than "The Road" thread.
Shame the whole thing has come down to just providing thread fodder. I was hoping they'd succeed.

Last edited on Wed Jan 11th, 2017 08:09 pm by odwyerpw

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OK I guess we both have hopes. I wish them well.

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The offer is still open to anyone who thinks the coupons are worthless. 50 % of nothing is better than nothing.

johnmoore
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Visitor......you can probably go to the airlines office/Mimi's, and they will sell you coupons 50 cents on the original dollar.

Wy Ynot
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Wish I had been so quick with a comeback, good one!!. I actually stopped in early afternoon and the gent from the café told me that she might be back tomorrow at 9AM. Ron

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Well i have considered the post that i offered my tickets ... i am willing to accept the offer of monoply money... on the grounds you throw in the Board....you can keep the airplane, but i want the hat,dog,house,
racecar ect..

guzzi
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Just wondering did Frank refund people yet?

roadrunner
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Get your info direct. The fellow that owns MiMI's Resturant and Bakery in SC is the individual behind  Paradise Air to SC. He told us he would start service Jan 2017. He is also a real estate developer in the area.

Last edited on Thu Jan 19th, 2017 10:28 pm by roadrunner

390pony
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Uh huh....

guzzi
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I know who he is and have talked to him for my friend. Who did get his money back. I was just wondering being it been 3 days with no comments.

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Ok, I'm not sure I want to be the spokesperson for this. Frank sent an email explaining what had happened regarding the escrow account, investor issues, account closings, etc. He said the money will be made available to him early next week at which time he'll start the refunding.

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Roadrunner:  What real estate in the area did he tell you he was developing?

aligato
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Why Kiwi??  You thinking of buying in....if so, I have a really nice bridge you might be interested in...LOL!!

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Aligato:  No way. was just curious if it was a truthful statement or not. 

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There was a commercial on Kgun 9 ABC in Tucson last night for Aeromar with flights from Tucson to Hermosillo, Los Mochis, and Mazatlan that I had never seen before.  No mention of Guaymas destination.

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Leslie Sahlen here. I am talking with Aeromar now. Flown them three times (when Paradise cancelled) and they are terrific from counter to baggage. Their counter in Tucson is conveniently located next to Southwest.

If you have family and friends who want to come down but don't have a lot of time and money, PLEASE encourage them to take advantage of the San Carlos Music Festival special package. ONE WEEKEND ONLY RIGHT NOW. It's like a test run to see if the Guaymas/San Carlos market is something they want to pursue. Round trip airfare from Tucson to Hermosillo, ground transport, hotel 3 nights, show, and local discounts for $500/person based on double occupancy. If you just need airfare I can get $300 round trip. Leaves Thursday Feb 9 and returns Sunday Feb 12.

LeslieS
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Attached is the info sheet for the "You Deserve A Weekend in Paradise" campaign.

Attached Image (viewed 223 times):

YouDeserve2.jpg

MARIGOT
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Leslie,
This is great information!
Please start a new thread for Aeromar...hopefully it will get more views than having it hidden in this Paradise Air thread.  Not being snarky, just think more people will click on a new thread for a different airline.

Best regards...

Last edited on Sun Jan 22nd, 2017 03:20 pm by MARIGOT

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standing offer.. I will buy your paradise air tickects for 50c on the doller. you can use the money to buy Aeromar.

Last edited on Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 05:52 pm by

johnmoore
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My daughter will accept your offer VSC, can you meet with us today? Where? Time?

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Call me at 226-1741 or USA 702 525-3651 We'd be delighted. This is NOT a Paradise Air event. Payment can be made (and is guaranteed by Paypal to tomatah1@aol.com. It is Gatorlegs/Mexmo account :)

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tell me how many and I will leave the money at santa rosa for you.

LeslieS
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We literally have operators standing by, in English and Spanish!

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Great idea and a nice offer Visitor!

johnmoore
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VisitorSanCarlos, Tell me the best time to meet you at Santa Rosa, and we will be there. The sooner the better as my daughter leave SC soon.  We certainly don't need a "middle man".

Last edited on Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 07:26 pm by johnmoore

VisitorSanCarlos
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Well johnmooreyou have my terms. I will leave the money there for you in advance. I don't get out much but if you or your daughter want to sell the tickets I will buy them. How many? Otherwise we'll just have to move on.

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I want to meet with you, solely on the chance a better deal might be negotiated. My daughter has 12 coupons, four in her name, four and four in others names. Would that present a problem?

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if you want to sell all 8 four and four is 8 i will give you50c on the dollar. I will send the money to santa rosa. it will take a couple of days. do you want the deal

MARIGOT
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Why don't you guys negotiate your deal through private messages?
The public board doesn't need to know all this...and it certainly provides none of us with new information concerning the thread topic, Paradise Air.
Just a suggestion...

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thank you. you are right i think we have negotiated marigot. i am new at this but if i read the fourum right there have been over 22000 hits and what has been learned so far. do you have any tickets you want to sell

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A laps of judgement? Put out for a promise? I would never put out unless I get a Kiss and a promise!!! JaJaJa "There is a sucker born every minute." Hey, I am lookin' to sell some Swamp land in Arizona! LMAO jajajaja  Id$^ts

Perhaps my post was misplaced 

Please Don't stop this post line, I find it most humorous.

Last edited on Mon Jan 23rd, 2017 11:45 pm by Jimmy

bartmanaz
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Further negotiations on coupon sales must be by PM or email. You can contact VSC off the board to work out your sales. Any further messages along this line will be deleted.
If anyone has new info about Paradise Air or refunds from them that is first hand factual, please share it.  Otherwise..........

Bart

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blah, bla, blah, blah, bla, bla!!!!
Frank Jackson real estate developer? where and whose money?
bla, bla, blah, blah, blah, bla, blaaaaaaaa!

Wy Ynot
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I had a new email from Frank today, very encouraging. I do not know how to copy and paste and it is lengthy. Ron

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Just to be clear, is he saying that the plans for the airline have been abandoned?

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If you can't cut an paste what are the "highlights" of the email.  Hopefully people will be getting their money back at some point.  That 50 cents on the dollar and leave the coupons and money at Santa Rosa sounds like another 'soap opera' to me. 

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kiwi, you are correct!!! why all the secrecy with SCV?  

happy camper
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Here is the entire email for all of you ..


Although the Paradise Air program has incurred many issues and delay, we have continued to support and promote air service for Guaymas/San Carlos.



We have received confirmation from the US Air Carrier that their domestic program is very close to reality with multiple flights to western US locations from the Carlsbad, CA airport. The Mexico program will start soon after under the US air carrier brand. Reservations will be available directly in their reservation system.



It is confirmed that the Mexico Air Service program has been expanded to other locations in Mexico with additional routes being added from three origination points in the US. The air carrier with corporate headquarters in Carlsbad, CA will begin operation of multiple flights daily from Carlsbad Airport to designated locations in the western US. The flights will use Bombardier CRJ-700 64-seat jets for the service.



The Mexico program originally was service from two US locations, Phoenix AZ and Tucson AZ to Guaymas Sonora using a Bombardier CRJ-200 50 seat jet. The program was expanded in December to add flights between Phoenix to San Felipe Baja California, Puerto Penasco Sonora and Cuidad Obregon Sonora. A further program expansion was recently approved to add Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas as Mexico destinations.



Aircraft for the Mexico program has been upgraded from the Bombardier CRJ-200 (50-seats) to using the Bombardier CRJ-700 (64-seats). The cost per seat for the flights will be the same using the larger aircraft due to a nominal increase in operation cost basically in extra fuel cost.



The flight routes will be direct from Carlsbad to all Mexico locations to access the western US market that will feed into the Carlsbad airport on domestic flights and through Carlsbad CA - Phoenix AZ to all Mexico destinations for the connecting market from the central, Midwest and eastern cities. This provides complete flexibility in scheduling using the Mexico destinations as the inside turn points for the southbound routes.



The program will start in late April 2017 with launch of the reservation system in February 2017. The Mexico program will follow the domestic program by two weeks. All domestic and international flights will be available on the GDS (Global Distribution System-Expedia, Kayak, etc.) and included on screen in 80%+ of travel agency and travel promotion agencies. The budget for promotion of the domestic and international flights is $100,000 usd per month with multiple platforms to book flights, air/hotel packages and all-inclusive packages.



The Guaymas flights are the heart of this program and will receive priority by the air carrier. Our office will reopen when the formal announcement is ready to be made. Coupons will be valid for these flights indefinately.


Thank you

VisitorSanCarlos
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kiwi and frankie my offer to buy your coupons is still good. bart has requested you pm me if you have coupons to sell. who i am is not very important. what is important is the color of my money,
frankie has already sent me a very rude pm. i guess that's why real names are not important.  

Last edited on Tue Jan 24th, 2017 03:56 am by

Wy Ynot
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Thank you Happy Camper, that's the exact email I have. Ron

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You welcome Ron . If you need any help on how to learn on copy and paste , let me know . Its a few minutes learning course. :)

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If I read between the lines there will no monies refunded for the coupons......,you will hold them until this new venture gets reorgainized. . Remember back in the beginning this was also the story of which plane etc. and it never happened.   For some reason I just don't think that Frank wrote that email ( and if not then we now have others involved...yikes) and it sounds like they are lacking in putting their "ducks" in a row again.  

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the first sentence in post 245 says it all!  he continues,  referring to the us air service and the mexican air service as a second party,  not paradise air!
SCV,  i find it curious i have no PM log for you?  please feel free to post the communication you say i sent you!!

Wy Ynot
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Thanks again Happy Camper. I should add that Frank also told me in an email a day or two before that he would refund the money if that's what I wanted. Has anyone actually gone down and visited with his wife here in San Carlos? Does anyone know the countless hours and meetings and miles and money it must require to attempt a startup such as this?? What would it mean for tourism, hotels, eateries, real estate and builders and local labor to support the same? It's been some years that my kids/grandkids have flown in here, from about 400. US to near 1400.US just before they shut down Guaymas service some years back. Gillette, Wyoming to San Carlos is near a 3 day drive one way. For working folks that have a couple weeks vacation, it's prohibitive time wise and cost wise. Gillette isn't as far from San Carlos as many US or Canadian homes. Would it not be a good thing to go over and fight the lines at the Guaymas airport to board or have your passport checked? For now, I gotta keep the faith. Ynot

happy camper
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Personally i have no intention in giving up my coupon yet. If we have to wait a bit longer, so be it . I will give them a change , to see if it works , but until then i can wait.
Driving to Hermosillo for a flight or picking up guests is just not that convenient anymore .

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Whynot: What you said about having air service into Guaymas is the reason people like you were so optimistic about this "deal". Everyone wants airline service here but this person Frank saw something and took advantage of it........big time. Notice he is not giving the name of the US air carrier nor the Mexican air carrier and it's just next month that he's saying it will be running.  Meantime where is the money? Which side of the border and Frank jumps back and forth across like a jumping bean and we know why. 

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kiwi, a correction. he says the program will start up late april , 2017. not next month!

Last edited on Tue Jan 24th, 2017 03:51 pm by frankiej

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You are so right Kiwi. It will not be this year that I invest in the bridge over to "Honeymoon Island" or the marina where Nacapule Canyon empties North of town. BUT I did this with my eyes open and still think it would be the biggest thing to help San Carlos in many years. I'll be the optimist and hang on for a while. Guess I'll enjoy today's sun and maybe later on a Tecate. Being here helps me appreciate how many days and years I worked in sub zero temps in the oil patch in Wyoming. Enjoy the day. I'll post my outcome when it happens. Ron

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Yes, Frankie I got it wrong  as to the dates but still no name for the carriers he talks about and I think that's odd.  Ron, Yes you are like me an eternal optimist and we will hope.

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Anyone have an idea what it costs to charter a Cessna from Tucson or Phoenix for 4-5 passengers to Guaymas?

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There is a flight special leaving Tucson on Thursday Feb 9 to Hermsosillo, and returns Sunday Feb 12. Part of the San Carlos Music Festival and only available for a couple more days from Leslie Sahlen 226-1741. It is Aeromar Airlines.

Frank and Paradise I believe are working with Cal Jet and starting in late April?

I for one am crossing my fingers for Gauymas Airport service, In the meantime, Aeromar is guaranteed and usually on time.

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Attached

Attached Image (viewed 128 times):

Screenshot 2017-01-24 10.41.00.png

Ian948
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Monarch Air Group - sorry should have added.
http://monarchairgroup.com/tucson-private-jet-and-air-charter-flights/



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using a charter can be expensive! if it was offered for group sales 2/3 times a week for flights round trip.  it might be an affordable option for air service in an out of guaymas!
bullshipper and ian maybe you guys might want to do some home work regarding group charters 2/3 times a week.

good luck guys and hope to hear something from you soon!

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At the moment the McClellan-Palomar Airport in Carlsbad, California has no commercial flights, only private flights.

California Pacific Airlines is a re-startup based in Carlasbad, California. Their plans in 2016 were to operate 3 Embraer ERJ-135 planes (a 37 pax plane, probably good to start the Tucson/Guaymas route) and later add an Embraer 170. Check out FlyCPAir.com for scheduled commercial airline service. Maybe this is the one.

Now the letter mentioned a CRJ700.. It it's a typo and they meant to say Embraer-170, well that could refer to the bird that was leased by Version1 of California Pacific Air that had to be returned back to it's lessor (it still bears the livery, so it's a possibity). So maybe CPAir v2 is getting it back and that's what is being referred to. If Frank is certain on the CRJ700 and it's not a typo.. well that destroys that theory and we can dispose of the two paragraphs I just typed. LOL. ;) 

United was the last commercial airline operating out of Carlsbad, pulling out in April 2015.

Found this article interesting about McCleelan-Palomar Airport (the Carlsbad, California airport).

http://www.seasidecourier.com/business/runway-length-remains-biggest-challenge-for-mcclellan-palomar-airport/article_df406fd2-f49a-11e4-8445-537fb4a14e63.html

Basically states when Skywest (the affiliate who operated the UA flights) upgraded it's fleet from props to jets, it could not continue in Carlsbad as they would be removing the EMB120 (prop)  from service and the regional jets could not operate out of the 4700 ft runway.

The next two other articles are again about CPAir, the airline trying to restart in Carlsbad. 

http://www.thecoastnews.com/2016/03/...ine-expects-to-begin-flights-soon/

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...0/california-pacific-airlines-faa/

The 95 year old owner has been trying for years. They are having to reapply to the DOT for their airworthiness certificate as well as other obstacles.

Frank wrote the letter about an airline out of Carlsbad... these are the only facts I could dig up so far..

Last edited on Thu Jan 26th, 2017 12:31 am by odwyerpw

odwyerpw
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More news on Carlsbad's McCleelan-Palomar Airport (cite of Frank's referenced airline that will provide service to Mexico).

In May they applied for funding under the Department of Transportation's 2016 Small Community Air Service Development Program. Specifically:
Carlsbad, California
Seeks $100,000 for marketing program funds in support of any new commercial airline service entrants at the airport.

There are currently two charter/airtaxi type operators out of CRD (Carlsbad).
Surf Air (operates Pilatus PC-12 -8pax)
JetSuiteX (operates Embraer Phenom100-7pax and ERJ-135-30pax)

Maybe CRD was awarded the DOT grant and they used that money to lure Frank's airline.

A commercial airline that will operate out of Carlsbad in April would have all of it's paperwork in order by now or at least filed... Especially one that flew a Bombardier CRJ700 or Embraer 170. (unless that plane is only for the Tucson/Phoenix/Guaymas legs, then it wouldn't be scheduled out of CBD)

Anyway, Frank wrote about an airline out of Carlsbad... so just doing a little bit of due diligence..
*edited for misspellings

Last edited on Thu Jan 26th, 2017 12:23 am by odwyerpw

hans
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And i still think Paradise Air should be reported to Profeco.What Frank did is against the Mexican Law.The People that got the Tickets , got a legal Mexican Invoice showing also the Tax they paid?I think they also will have a Problem with Hacienda.

Last edited on Fri Jan 27th, 2017 02:02 am by hans

johnmoore
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Any "new, substantiated, news"??

odwyerpw
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I've been in contact with a guy who knows what's scheduled at the gates in PHX (Sky Harbour) and another who knows what's happening in TUS (Tucson) and both of them tell me they haven't seen any new developments for intl air service to to/from Guaymas. This has been their response for each of the advertised Oct, then Nov, then Dec Paradise-Air inaugural flights.

I would guess with his latest communication, he's bought another 3+ months (end of April / start of May) before his ticket holders start to pressure him again if they put any stock in the promise of the new un-named air service.

It's the mention of the 70pax Bombardier CRJ700 that has me puzzled. That's a big plane to fill for the route. A route that's had no service for years doesn't just start with a 70pax plane, especially when it was a grossly failed route that couldn't fill planes. It starts with something like a Part 135 service operator ( who's planes can make a max of 5 round trip charter flights a week w/ less than 30 pax.. but those round trips can be multi-stop) or a 19 pax prop.

Somewhat like JetSuiteX is trying to do w/ their newly acquired used ERJ-135s w/ a reduced pax count of 30 instead of 37 might be appropriate. Interesting concept.



Not a bad looking barbie-jet.

JetSuiteX Part135 Public Shuttle Service w/ Embraer ERJ-135 regional jets

JetSuiteX Website

Last edited on Mon Jan 30th, 2017 11:35 pm by odwyerpw

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 I fret over you folks who are unable to fetch your loved ones from and to Hermosillo. Are you so busy you can not drive 1 1/2 hours each way? It seems you have the money and want a FedEx style (to your door) delivery, why don't you hire them a Taxi to deliver them from the Hermosillo Airport to your door? Find a local Taxista to go get them for your lazy a$$. 


This post was edited to not offend the folks who have more dollars than cents [sp]. Viva Rojas!!! 


 

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On our trip down we saw 6, count 'em 6 ambulances haulin' butt for Hermosillo. Maybe some were deadheads, but I'm guessing that some had customers. That's an awfully lot of ambulii (plural for ambulance?) for a 1.5 hour stretch of road. I understand peoples reticence to drive that stretch of highway if there might be an option.

Then there is the tourist angle, in which the service would facilitate easier access to San Carlos as a destination and thus increase the local's business. I don't think it's a matter laziness as you suggest, but a viable option for visitors and locals alike. I for one would like to see an airline at least make a go at it. Probably wouldn't use it, but I'd still like to see them try it out.

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In the Old days, when there was an airline servicing Guaymas I used it and found that it was very convenient.

But, When it comes to SC as a Tourist Destination I don't get it. For about the same price one can fly from the US to Mazatlan or another "True Tourist location". San Carlos is too cold in the Winter and too hot in the Summer. SC is not a Swingin' Place to visit. It is full of full-time or part-time, Gray Panthers who's lives, pretty much, revolve around "Whats for Supper".  

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jimmy , i agree with you, except for " to cold in the winter to hot in the summer. the same thing was said of phoenix and tucson in the ole days! now phoenix has a population of over 4,000,000 tucson over a 1,000,000  when i was younger there wasn't 1,000,000 in the whole state.

there are also many nationals who would be using an air service.

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Well, 90 degrees with 90% humidity =s Death. I have seen 125 degree heat index in SC.

Most prudent folks Flee in June till Oct. 

And, you don't see too many Norteños out and about in the Winter till about 10-11 am unless they are Bundled up. Not much swimming in the Winter either. 

When I was at ASU in the early 70's I was amazed with folks vacationing from the Northern states swimming in feb and march. There are always exceptions to any rule.

As for the Nationals using air service, I don't know any wealthy Nationals. All of my National family and friends are Poor Folks who wish for a car.

Last edited on Tue Jan 31st, 2017 08:46 pm by Jimmy

Hook
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Gotta agree with Jimmy. There is a reason San Carlos hasn't grown up like Maz or PV. There is a reason that HoJos and Club Med have sold out.


It's the winter weather. Who wants to fly to San Carlos from the snowbelt states/provinces, with 60 degree water and strong, cold winds in the winter?


Back in "the day" when those resorts were operated by big companies, they subsidized the airfare. That made it cheap to get here. But word got out that it really isnt that warm in San Carlos in the winter. Especially NW of the Tetas, where HoJos and Club Med were. I doubt there were many repeat customers, after experiencing a week of wind and cold water here.


It's a bit ironic that people are hoping for service from the States when the real influx of new visitors is from Mexico. And most of those are within driving distance (HMO, Obregon).

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August and September,  i agree are miserably humid!  but 42 degrees is better than -42 in the winter  than northern usa states and canada!
jimmy you are right there are exceptions to the rule,  we who have acclimated to this climate are in long sleeve shirts, long pants light jacket.  the northern staters and canadians are in shorts         t-shirts sandals!

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But 42 is still not 80+ with 70 degree water. And it is often 80+ from Maz, south. And most of those destinations have true international airports.

It will be the maquila factories that make or break the Guaymas airport for international flights. Too many other warmer, cheaper, direct flight destinations than Guaymas, for tourists.

Last edited on Wed Feb 1st, 2017 03:55 am by Hook

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hook have you been here this season? the weather is all over the place! hot and cool!

Hook
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frankiej wrote: hook have you been here this season? the weather is all over the place! hot and cool!
LOL! Yeah, I have taken notice of the weather.

It's been a rather cool winter, Frankie. It's gotten warm recently, for sure. And the week ahead looks good. 

But it's also been one of the wettest winters we've had in the last 3-4 winters. 

The northerners/Canadiese are fine with this weather. But there is no replacing water that is swimmable. Maz appears to have water around 74. That's swimmable. 62 is not.

frankiej
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the weekend of the 14th i was hunting in 92 degree weather!92 is hot to me and 42 is cool!
thank god we have enjoyed a little more rain!
this post is about the defunct airline, we have drifted from the post!

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I think you would be surprised at the increase in tourism if you had flights to Guaymas at a reasonable price. My dad lived in San Carlos for years and I would visit yearly. After he died I continued visiting as I had made friends with a few people. My last trip was the first time I had to fly to Hermosillo. Not a bad drive to San Carlos but the timing and price are prohibitive when you add in all expenses. As an example I can fly Bermuda/Hermosillo, $1200usd and takes a day and a half. Bermuda/Costa Rica, $650usd and 7 hours.

Hook
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Our discussion is still relevant to the thread. It explores how much demand there really is for Guaymas flights and what creates demand. We are winter-weather-challenged in the eyes of many tourists, I suspect. People want warm, bathing suit weather, if they are escaping snow and cold. Heck, most of the resorts dont even heat their pools, do they?

Where were you hunting in 92 degree weather? You must have been at least five miles from the coast. Probably more. Out by Ortiz?

Day before yesterday, we had our first day above 80 in San Carlos since probably early December. And only my weather station got that warm. All the others in SC were in the mid 70s.

Last edited on Wed Feb 1st, 2017 01:23 pm by Hook

Hook
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edale99 wrote: I think you would be surprised at the increase in tourism if you had flights to Guaymas at a reasonable price. My dad lived in San Carlos for years and I would visit yearly. After he died I continued visiting as I had made friends with a few people. My last trip was the first time I had to fly to Hermosillo. Not a bad drive to San Carlos but the timing and price are prohibitive when you add in all expenses. As an example I can fly Bermuda/Hermosillo, $1200usd and takes a day and a half. Bermuda/Costa Rica, $650usd and 7 hours.
Yeah, unless you LIVE near an airline hub that flies directly here,  it becomes a day and a half to actually get to San Carlos. And 1.5 hours of that is still a drive.

Jimmy
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It is my opinion that the demand at this time is not sufficient for an airline to cover its expenses flying into Guaymas.  

What I have gathered from this thread is that Retired Grays (who live here part time and full time) want their kids to fly into Guaymas for a visit. Was there one post from a Tourist wanting to come to SC for a vacation?

I remember that before the Mexican "Drug War" violence was plastered all over the media in the US there were a lot more gringos in SC, and lots of locals were working. I remember also, several Tour Buses, full of Gringos, would pull into Marina San Carlos, each week, and load onto Garys' Boats for a sight seeing ride on the ocean. When I mention to people I talk to in the US that I live part-time in Mexico, They are Shocked that I am not Afraid to live or travel here. All of them are scared to death to even visit. I remember in the 60's and 70's riding the train from Nogales to Mazatlan for Spring Break. 

San Carlos, and Mexico has changed a lot, mostly for the worse. I think it has to do with NAFTA and the Influence the US exerts over Mexico to fight the Drug War. Before NAFTA there were plenty of Drugs available in the US and,  Mexico did not have the killings that they have now. Actually, Drug Violence in Mexico was nearly non existent. Because back then the Drug Cartels and the Politicians worked hand in hand. 

As much as I would like to see a low cost flight to SC, under the current circumstances in Mexico I can't see Guaymas getting flights. As was mentioned in a prior post, no business is willing to subsidize the flights.  

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Know this is not relevant to now but years ago there was a AeroMexico DC9 that flew every day from Mexico City, La Paz, Guaymas, Tucson and then turned around and did the same thing back.  Eventually Tucson was changed to Phoenix for better connections.  That flight was always full both ways. I think the air fare to La Pax was 90.00USD.  Aero Mexico started having financial difficulties and a lot of their flights were dropped. I think the secret was the multiple stops that filled the plane.   Loved that flight and took it often.  Yes, the weather here and the fact that the streets are rolled up early except on weekends has a lot to do with trying to support an airline. 

long time resident
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Back in the day (30 years ago) we had club med, and they were full. We had Fiesta Wayfarers, and that was 3 charter planes a week from BC. The town was hoping, and we had two airlines that serviced the airport daily. Cheap flights, always full, and it wasn't just grey hairs. We did not have the maquilas back then, but we had family members that would fly down , and MANY nationals that used the airline service also. If there were flights, they would be used, if they were not too expensive. Tucson is full of people from somewhere else, that do not like the cold. San Carlos is warmer. Many people here would fly down there, if there was a flight that was easy from the Tucson Airport. Trying to fill a large plane is just stupid. But a puddle jumper, or a plane that holds around 40 would be filled on a regular basis. 3 or 4 flights a week would be great, and as soon as they were up and running, they would be filled. The flight plan for Paradise air didn't make much sense, IMO

long time resident
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Aero Mexico would start from PHx , land in Tucson, then Guaymas, and then La Paz, turn around, and do the same stops on the way back up. Made for a full day, one plane, a few cities. Everybody was happy.

ballenamar
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In those days, AeroMexico was endorsing a language school that my wife and I owned. So, I had regular contact with AeroMexico marketing people. The message was always the same. The Guaymas part of the trip was never profitable. I heard regular talk about dropping Guaymas. What was profitable was tourists going to La Paz/Cabo and Mexico City bound business people.  LTR, in my days that flight ended in Mexico City.  Also I was told that the charter arrangement with the company who did the groupie vacations was profitable.

Kiwi
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Guess my mind is slipping...but just knew it started in Mexico City as flew it a lot...oh well. Seems like it might be  a long time before someone tries what Frank did......I just hope people get their money back and that a Mexican Airline decides to put us on their list in the future and you are right about a smaller aircraft.

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When Mexico built its government sponsored mega resorts in Cabos, Puerta Valarta, Hualtulco, Ixtapa and Cancun, they also subsidized the airfare from most major aiports to these destinations, that don't charge the airlines as much to use these particular airports.

So I could go direct from LA to PV for $250, while the same origen to Hermosillo was $650 and more to Guaymas.

This was a deal that was done purposely to favor new investors over the older places that are now practically abandoned like Barra de Navidad, Manzanillo, Guaymas, Mazatlan, Altamira, Veracruz, etc. So how can Guaymas compete with that? Why would the airlines compete with their own flights carrying more traffic to fewer locations with better accomadations and airports?

bartmanaz
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To put all of this back on track on what's happening now and not what went on some years ago, I am publishing an email received from Paradise Air by a known member of our board who is going to remain anonymous at this point.


"I want to provide a detailed explanation on the delay in making your payment. The Guaymas air service program required a significant amount of funds to be placed in escrow as guarantee for the program. The funds for the coupon refund and reimbursement payments are in the same escrow account as the guarantee deposit for the air service. I have tried unsuccessfully over the past weeks to separate the funds (for coupon and reimbursement payments) from the deposit funds without having to liquidate the escrow account. Liquidating the account in total will require the deposit funds to be returned and cause a delay of the air service program just days ahead of the air carrier opening their reservation system for the Guaymas flights. 


 I have tried to make other arrangements to keep the flight deposits in place to allow the program to go forward but I am not able to. The request to liquid the account to access the coupon refund and reimbursement funds will be ordered on Monday morning with funds being available quickly. I am continuing to work to get the guarantee funds reapplied to the program so the Guaymas program can go forward but the importance is on completing the coupon refund and reimbursement payments asap.

 I will update again on Monday as to when your payment will be completed. 
Thank you"


This email message is dated January 28.

Hook
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Thanks for the update, Bart.


And I'd like to thank you for allowing this discussion on your board, without censoring it for monetary reasons. It's very valuable to have a forum that encourages discussions for reasons other than simple monetary gain. This airline is an important issue for this town.

bartmanaz
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Thanx.  Let's focus on the issues surrounding air service and not on climatic arguments on San Carlos.
Bart

ballenamar
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Bart: 

While I will always respect your wishes whether or not I agree with you. You offer us a great service. But, I do think there is a relationship between climate and consumer demand in Guaymas for an airline. For me, I see visitors from the USA diminishing simply based on the huge vacancy factor on residential property. With the peso devaluation, Mexicans who want to own a home here will build. I can't imagine why anyone would want to run an airline in and out of Guaymas to/from the USA at this time. AeroMexico thought long and hard before they pulled out despite the full loads. The Guaymas leg was never a good deal for AeroMexico except for charters. 

Permit me to reminisce. Years ago I did a lot of consulting in the USA but preferred to live with my family in San Carlos. I had a really good client in Tucson. That contract provided the funds I needed to build our home in San Carlos. I spent the week working in Tucson (the company paid for an apartment in Tucson). I was with my family in San Carlos on the weekends.The round trip airfare on AeroMexico was $US138. I did this for two years. Most of the passengers were tourists going to La Paz/Cabo or businessmen going to Mexico City. The minority of people who got off the plane to stay in San Carlos were maquilador executives, a few Club Med people, and fewer locals.

Last edited on Thu Feb 2nd, 2017 02:33 am by ballenamar

IronMan
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IronMan wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpTiqKkePY
If I have to hold my tongue any longer, I'll burst! This is the most comical string I have seen since the "new marina" accepting pre-payment for slips in the bahia....really!



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