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bombero
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Many people are reporting no water, or just trickles in the Caracol, Country Club, and Ranchitos, sectors, and others.  Guess it's that time of year?  Any ideas? 

johnmoore
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On his blog, gg crows about his 7,000 gal cistern that remains full, while others around him and elsewhere are suffering without any water. What a guy.

Hook
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bombero wrote: Many people are reporting no water, or just trickles in the Caracol, Country Club, and Ranchitos, sectors, and others.  Guess it's that time of year?  Any ideas? 
There was one hell of a break in the Bahia that may have been to blame. Look at all the rubble that washed down near Mel's house, Jan Rains house. It looks like what happens when a chubasco hits.

I am pretty close to GG and we were full this AM, too. I cant crow about 7000 gallons, though. 

What about others? Has the water come back for you?

Wy Ynot
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We started getting water finally yesterday afternoon around 2:30. As Murphey's Law would have it 2 boys picked up a big rock and threw it at an exposed piece of 3/4" pvc pipe outside the fence and nailed it. Required about a half hour to  find some collars and pipe and had a small pond in the street but we got water. Greater Eastern Ranchitos suburbs. Ron

guzzi
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F-troop only the lower tank is filling not enough pressure to make it two second tank. Witch is no problem at all. Talked to CEA and they said there having troubles with one pump it works but keeps turning itself off. They also said they were working on it. That's good enough for me.

Vince Radice
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Local activists from the Ranchitos are starting what could be described as a class action lawsuit against the CEA,

http://sancarlos.tv/how-did-our-meeting-with-the-new-comisario-of-san-carlos-go-not-so-hot/

At the bottom of the article above in the comments section there is more info on this matter. Basically Juan Carlos and Lilliana need people to give them a copy of their water bill. Today Victor Parra Maldonado is delivering 50 water bills from Ranchitos residents to the governors office in Hermosillo along with a letter explaining how the water bills are illegal according to the Ley de Ingresos.

A chubasco is brewing over the issue as well as the new and I might add illegitimate comisario that represents San Carlos.

Last edited on Wed Jun 8th, 2016 10:01 pm by Vince Radice

long time resident
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Water company says I use 1000 pesos a month. I had no water for at least half of each month, and have lost many trees. ( over half of what I had a few years ago) I have no lawn, and I am not there to use any water, but they insist that the debt keeps growing, even if there is no water. I think I should only have to pay for what I use, and if there is no water at all, I am obviously not using it.

Hook
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I live in the Ranchitos and I am almost embarrassed to say that I pay about 14.00 US/month for unlimited amounts........in the desert. There are meters on probably 5% or less of the homes in the Ranchitos, so unlimited amounts are very common.

Yes, sometimes it isnt coming in. That's been pretty rare, over the last two years, or so.

Sometimes many things don't work as promised in Mexico. Should I petition authorities over it? It seems like I am getting what I pay for.

Water is too cheap, IMO. I think that everyone who owns a pool should DEFINITELY be on a meter. The amount of water that evaporates off a pool is obscene in the desert.

frankiej
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vince, i read your article! i would like to comment on one thing, the water! water is water, the water in guaymas comes from an aqueduct from obregon, the water in san carlos comes from wells in the san jose area! two entirely different systems! with two entirely different problems!
i agree with you that our dilapidated water infrastructure needs to be replaced!

long time resident
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Hook, my pool is empty. So that is not an issue. Also, it is inside, so never had much evaporation.

frankiej
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all water consumption should be metered ! if CEA placed meters on the unmetered  consumption, there be more money in the coffers! more money in the coffers would soon accumulate to pay for our much needed water infrastructure replacement! this is not rocket science just simple clear logic!!

Last edited on Thu Jun 9th, 2016 07:29 am by frankiej

Vince Radice
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Well Hook here is the deal. For many people who clearly don't have as much money as you and live in the Ranchitos, having to pay 5 times what the rate is in Guaymas is a burden. Do you have a meter? If you do not then on your water bill it will show you use 30 cubic meters of water every month. Do you have a large garden that you water everyday? Do you use more than 30 cubic meters of water each month? So you pay 14 dollars a month for unlimited water, that seems like you are taking advantage of the system!! Good for you many people do here.
If that is the case then your case is exactly what is wrong with the system. Juan Carlos Gonzales, the guy who started all this is charged exactly what you are and he uses 1 cubic foot of water a month. http://sancarlos.tv/la-maldita-cea-why-the-water-company-is-overcharging-san-carlos-residents/ He has a meter and he was forced by CEA to put in his own infrastructure which all the neighbors on his block pitched in for. So the question is simple. Is this a fair and just system for metering water in San Carlos in a desert?
The question is not whether you think the water bill that you pay is reasonable. People who have a lot of money don't think that 350 pesos a month is too much to pay for water. People who make minimum wage and live in the ranchitos think that they should not pay any more then what Guaymas pay's. 
If you look at La Ley de Ingresos where it is stipulated how much everyone in the Municipio de Guaymas should pay you find that the charges in San Carlos are not justified. It is irrelevant whether the water comes from a well or from an aqueduct.
The other issue is the 65% of water that leaks out of the failing infrastructure that no one at CEA wants to talk about. I would urge residents to please take video of these huge leaks and post them on social media and send them to us. Local activists are going to win this battle over the water. It is only a question of time. I would also ask that people send us your old water bills as evidence of what the water company has been doing over the past decade. 

Last edited on Thu Jun 9th, 2016 06:22 am by Vince Radice

frankiej
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CASH COW!!!  san carlos is the cash cow! a higher rate is paid here for water, than guaymas! we are charged every 2 months for electricity, guaymas is charged monthly why?? well we all know why!! there are 3 tiers for charging for electricity, if you are charged every 2 months your chances of going into the 2 of the more expensive of the 3 tiers is greater!

Last edited on Thu Jun 9th, 2016 12:08 pm by frankiej

guzzi
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I be-leave CFE tiers are larger for us than they are for Guaymas at less they were a couple of years ago. When I did the math than it came out the same.

Hook
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long time resident wrote: Hook, my pool is empty. So that is not an issue. Also, it is inside, so never had much evaporation.
LTR, you are the exception;  possibly the only person in San Carlos with an indoor pool. I wasn't singling you out, if you were wondering.

Most people who own pools in this town tell me that emptying their pool, while they are gone for six months, is not an option. They say that the inside of the pool will crumble if not kept wet. The inside material is different down here.

So, the water sits there, evaporating, while the pool isn't even being used. 

Hey, I'm all for freedom of personal choice, when it comes to owning a pool. But water is a finite commodity in the desert. People need to pay for their amount of usage. Meters should be everywhere.

I have a decent sized vegetable garden over the winter/spring months. While it is on a drip system, it is a luxury. I should be paying more, I suppose;  although, living in a 350 sq foot casita with a trailer on the side, probably puts us pretty low on the water consumption scale.


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Totally agree with you hook. I have friends in the ranchitos that have 1000 Sq Mts of gardens that are lush and green, and brag about paying $250 pesos a month. Makes me cry, when I see water running in the streets. I was upset with the water company because they do not care. If you have a large lot, then you must be using 1000 pesos worth even tho everything looks dead. I have put in (at my own expense) over 400 meters of water line, when I built back in '81, and so many hooked up to it, never a reimbursement from anyone. You put it in, then the water company owns it, but they will not maintain it. I have replaced seven meters in that time, and I really feel that I am done. I got tired of all the BS. All depends on who you know at the water company as to how they deal with you. I had a client that had to pay for water for five years, (when they even produced a letter of cancellation to the water company,and signed by the water company as having received the letter of requesting the water be shut off) when their renters were no longer paying the rent, put not leaving. They still got stuck with the bill, because the water was never turned off. Water company was friends with the renters. It gets old after a while.......
So for having a trickle every now and then, and waiting days to get my tinaca full enough to use the pump, I refuse to pay 1000 pesos a month to this corrupt company. Most of the trees have died, so not much more to lose.

frankiej
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vince states that we lose 65% of our water from leaks! i don't know where that statistical number came from! but i will agree we lose way to much water from our failing water infrastructure!! there is not one week that goes by that there is not a leak on the road, especially in the bajia area!i have a question; how much of the existing water line is under the paved street from the highway to the end of the line puesta del sol????we have a problem that may be bigger than we realize! lets focus on the main line! the line that runs from the wells to all the holding tanks to the end of the line! that needs to be replaced not repaired!if it is under the street most of the way that would require ripping up the existing pavement or trenching along side of it where possible!here lies the other problem from the main line, everything splices off of. that is a complete night mare! i have seen to many exposed , inadequate line size, just to name a few problems!i know when i built my office i had to place the line in. i did it at the correct depth and required size piping! later to find my neighbors splicing into it, with no consideration of compensating me! 

Vince Radice
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The stats come from CEA

frankiej
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vince, gracias amigo!! i was just trying to get the "I's" dotted and the "t's" crossed from you!!

Hook
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What can I say, Vince? Yes, I should be on a meter, too. Everyone should. It encourages waste and allows people to live outside of what is practical, in terms of landscaping, in a desert.


And, yes, waste is a problem. So, the company operating on a shoestring budget, based on what they charge, should begin ripping up the streets and fixing all the infrastructure? Based on their budget, just how would they accomplish that?


And I suppose you want to fine CEA as well, for all these transgressions. Even less money for repairs.


Good luck with your latest crusade. It seems an honorable cause, if laws are being unevenly enforced. I just think there are better dragons to slay than REDUCING 300 peso water bills. Water is cheap; yes, even for the locals, at this price. No commodity is cheaper. Not propane, not gas or diesel, not electric. Look at the cost of water in SC, compared to the total cost of living. It's cheap, especially when you consider we're in the desert.


Now, I am sure you have been able to find some locals so destitute that the cost of water IS a hardship. But it's not for most all the Mexicans I know in the Ranchitos. Other things are hardships; daily bus fares to and fro, electricity, gas for the car, but not the cost of water.

Last edited on Thu Jun 9th, 2016 04:23 pm by Hook

frankiej
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water bills are dependent on the infrastructure usage!! if you only consume water and use a private or have a community sewer system, you don't pay for the sewage amount of the bill!all water usage should be metered!!
it should be the responsibility of CEA to provide and install these meters! it's only fair and good business!!

Bullshipper
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Water in Ranchitos is probably on a very shallow hardpan aquifier. A well will probably not produce more than a trickle, but a 1/2 gpm trickle pumped 24hrs a day adds up to 700 gallons a day held in a storage tank, and most people use 50 per day per person as an average.

A $75 1'5" diameter pipe spike can be driven 40 feet in a days labor with a $20 post driver so if you live near one of the existing arroyos that has some sand and gravel, this could be a solution for you.  Or, if you live down stream for people that are watering,you also have a good chance and of course witching for water is a common skill in Mexico.

Water is probably the most valuable commodity the earth holds, and without it, you investment here is worth nothing. With it, its worth more. I think its allways good to try to fight the good fight, but a small well may solve your problem sooner with less frustration, and you are entitled as a property owner to have up to a 2" diameter well on your property for domestic and agricultural use w/o applying for a permit, the last time I looked. A pither pump will tell you how much of an electric jet pump you need, and if there is no water, you can pull the pipe with a lever and pay your laborer to try another spot.
I have done a few in my time.

Last edited on Thu Jun 9th, 2016 06:51 pm by Bullshipper

frankiej
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i am from arizona and in my 36 year construction career have had many wells built, i also have had wells drilled on 2 ranches i owned. one was on the rincon creek vail, az. 4 where on my family ranch along the hussyampa river, wickenberg,az! drilling a well does not mean hitting water! a 2 inch diameter does not give much option for pumping the water out! if you are lucky to hit water, you need to be deep enough in the aquifer to fill your casing! how much water will 2 inches of casing hold? it depends on the depth into the aquifer, water will only fill to it's level! sounds like a lot of money for speculation!
regarding witching, i usually only believe in facts or scientific evidence! that said; i am a true believer in witching! i have seen it work on many occasions!

nice guy
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It's worse in a lot of places NOB.

http://www.thenation.com/article/dry-taps-and-lagoons-of-sewage-what-americas-water-crisis-looks-like/

Wy Ynot
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Am I dreaming or have I heard that you can't get a permit to drill a well near Ranchitos? Contra la ley?? Ron

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That's what I thought I heard somewhere also, maybe from all those dry places 3/4 way to Nacapuli but you get old and you wonder if you really remember what you're remembering !!

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Hook, if all they were asking for was 300 pesos, I would be very happy. If we lived in a perfect world, things would be different. My client had to pay a couple of thousand dollars (not pesos), to be able to sell their property, after spending five years in court (throwing money after the lawyers) to remove one of the Caballeros from her property. For that she had to pay all the back bills, that they left, and fix the house, because they trashed it on their way out. Water company did not respect the signed letter they had received five years prior. Please tell me that there isn't any corruption taking place.

Vince Radice
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Hook doesn't think it is a burden for poor people to have to pay 350 pesos a month for water yet it is a burden for people to come up with bus fare or gas money. It is a strange logic indeed. 

Bullshipper
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Vince Radice wrote: Hook doesn't think it is a burden for poor people to have to pay 350 pesos a month for water yet it is a burden for people to come up with bus fare or gas money. It is a strange logic indeed. 
Comparitively, he's right. It costs 150 pesos in gas a day to go to and from Empalme, so that's over 10x what a water bill costs. And I think its still illegal for the CEA to cut peoples drinking supply, so 1/2 of the people you are using as an example, most likely haven't paid their bill in years.
Water has been a political football that hasn't improved in the +30 years I have been in Mexico. But everyone here already knows that, so good luck beating this dead horse again.

Vince Radice
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And for 70 years PRI dominated Presidential politics in Mexico because mostly people did not demand change. Most people are sheep but every now and again a few wolves step up to the plate. I know a few wolves who are resurrecting dead horses.

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Victor Roberto Parra Maldonado
5 hrs ·

"INFORMAR A UN PUEBLO...ES HACER PATRIA"
LA COMISARIA SAN CARLOS... ESTA DOCUMENTANDO SUS ACCIONES PARA RECLAMAR A LA AUTORIDAD RESPONSABLE LAS ACCIONES QUE SON DE AGUA... LAS TARIFAS PARA EMPEZAR: GUAYMAS PAGA $ 54.20 MENSUALES POR EL CONSUMO MÍNIMO QUE SON 10 M3 (10 MIL LITROS)... SÚMELE 35% DE DRENAJE... BOMBEROS...CRUZ ROJA...SAN CARLOS VIENE COMO COMISARIA TIENE UNA TARIFA $254.60 MENSUALES POR UN MÍNIMO DE 30 M3 (30 MIL LITROS)... RECIBE LA MISMA AGUA NO POTABLE... NO TIENE DRENAJE... NO TIENE ALCANTARILLADO... MUCHO MENOS TRASLADO... TRATAMIENTO.... DEPOSITO FINAL AGUAS RESIDUALES... Y COBRAN 212% mas que en guaymas...ESO SE ESTA DOCUMENTANDO... YA SE TIENEN 150 RECIBOS QUE PRESENTARAN FORMAL DENUNCIA ANTE EL AYUNTAMIENTO (21 REGIDORES... 1 SINDICO... 1 PRESIDENTE MUNICIPAL... QUIENES PRUEBAN LA LEY INGRESOS...Y EN ELLA ESTÁN LAS TARIFAS... QUE SE APLICA... ¡¡¡

RichD
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I live in the Ranchitos. I have a meter. I have had plenty of water for the last 2 years. If i ever leave SC it will not be because of crappy infrastructure it will be because I am tired of all the complaining. This is a beautiful place to live.

Bullshipper
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RichD wrote: I live in the Ranchitos. I have a meter. I have had plenty of water for the last 2 years. If i ever leave SC it will not be because of crappy infrastructure it will be because I am tired of all the complaining. This is a beautiful place to live.
x2, and its usually not the Mexicans that are complaining, unless you mention Vince.This got old years ago.

Vince Radice
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Ignorance never ceases to amaze.

Bullshipper
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Vince Radice wrote: Ignorance never ceases to amaze.x2

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vince, i am proud of you for championing this noble cause!there are a lot of injustices occurring and it is easier for some to ignore or comment on those that do, than to stand up and do something about it! 

Hook
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Championing a cause and making a logical argument are two different things.

frankiej
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what is not logical? the problem as i see it is the administration of CEA! i firmly believe if all water consumption was metered there would be more money in the coffers, more money in the coffers means money to build and maintain! it could also factor in any price reduction and off set for some who are unable to pay
i wasn't born yesterday and realize we don't live in a perfect world, but attempting an effort is better than not attempting!

RichD
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So you want the right to complain but you are upset when people complain about your complaining. Are you not seeing the irony here?

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this is a forum where people can express their views! some may agree some may oppose! if someone observes that on a regular basis water is being wasted through our antiquated water infrastructure and voices their concern on this forum that is hardly complaining, that is only an obvious observation!if that same person decides to become proactive and do something about it for the good of all why should they be belittled for it "complaining"?? 

will rogers
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We could protest. Wave the American flag and burn the Mexican flag.

long time resident
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I have heard many Mexicans complain. They are not on this board. Some do not even speak english (imagine) Anyways, my point being, CEA has to change. They can not remain the same even tho they have tried hard for the 35 years I have been here. They did not pay for much of the infrastructure, they just had it done poorly. We were all accessed a large amount of money to put in the water and sewer, and it was down ALL WRONG. (not my opinion, that came from an engineer who worked in the field in the states, and watched what they actually did here.) One of the major issues I have with Mexico, and the water company in particular, is that there is no accountability. No transparency. Put those two items into the picture, and change would happen rapidly!

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will rogers, you don't have to wave or burn any flags!you can participate behind the scenes and be very effective!there is no need for drama there is a need for activism, up front or behind the scenes!!! 

will rogers
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Just kidding Frankie. In case you haven't been watching the news nob that's what the Mexicans in the US do, wave the Mexican flag and burn the American flag.

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WR, you are correct, in that liver lilied, bastion of progressive liberalism (U.S.), they can get away with it. I would not try that here, because I believe in, and respect Mexico, and it's sovereign power. Obviously that is not how the immigrants, legal or not, see it when they migrate north.

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I would like some specific examples of Mexican's waving their flag then burning the American one?

I don't respect any sovereign power if it abuses the rights of it's citizens and residents and then destroy's a resource because of ineptitude, corruption, incompetence or a combination of all three.

Ask people in Flint Michigan how they feel about environmental protection. How many years has heavy industry been allowed to dump into rivers and water ways.

Take a look at the dead zone in the Gulf Of Mexico. Ya get those damn progressive liberals off the back of industry and let us get on with business!

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Mana: 
WR, i am quite a where of what is going on NOB! that's why i wrote what i wrote! burning flags does not accomplish anything it takes away from the subject and issues!you are the perfect example, you see a news report burning flags and the message or the issue, pass you!what became so ingrained to you was the burning of the flags not the issue, so much you used it here!nothing with ever be accomplished through idiocy and ignorance!

Last edited on Sat Jun 11th, 2016 08:00 pm by frankiej

will rogers
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Mana: 
Vince, it was all over the news with cameras at a Trump rally in San Jose. Protesters waving the Mexican flag and burning the American flag.

390pony
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Mana: 
And, it happened at other rallies, too.

frankiej
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Mana: 
will, do you see what has happened? 8 posts and what are we talking about, burning flags and not the issue!

Bullshipper
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Mana: 
Some people are paying $3 per month in Guaymas and $20 per month in SC, and lots of people are not paying anything at all. Every time the government has tried to raise rates in the past to do projects, people object, so the govenment tries to keep installing cheap to keep up with a population that is doubling its numbers every 17 years with a 3% positive birth rate.
Sonora recently installed the Novio Dam pipelines 100's of miles to increase supplies, even while old cash cows like Pemex lost money instead of contributing,and huge cutbacks in Federal programs have also been placed. The government is running with deficits, so there is really no money for more improvements without raising rates.
And while I previously stated that its always good to fight the good fight, one must understand that any administration requires adequete funding to maintain, and much more to improve an aging water system.
So calling SC a cash cow for the CEA strikes me pretty funny, and I think that more complaining will fall on deaf ears and make it sound like you are burning Mexican flags and slapping the host that is trying to serve everyone the best they can with the budget they have for peanuts.

Last edited on Mon Jun 13th, 2016 03:32 am by Bullshipper



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