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 Moderated by: bartmanaz Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
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let's try something new  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 02:10 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
my post #27 i state that there signs going up all over G+ saying keep the beaches clean!the local government seems to be a where of the problem! 
probably what we will see starting with the signs to built awareness is the eventual enforcement of the law! 

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 02:34 am
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TravelLover
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Biscuit wrote: Littering isn't a simple matter and therefore doesn't have a simplistic solution. Everyone loves a clean beach but to get there we're actually talking about changing a cultural norm. Think back to what a huge effort it took to end habitual littering on US roadways. And how long did it take? 10-15 years! Changing a cultural norm first requires taking ownership of the problem. What that means is I don't quit picking up trash once I think I've done my fair share. I don't help clean a beach a few times and then get discouraged because change hasn't come about yet. Instead, I commit to cleaning more than my fair share for many years to come.

It's much easier to influence others to take their trash with them when they leave if they see a relatively clean beach a lot of the time, and if trash cans are available on the way out from beaches. Then someone has to empty those cans before wind and wildlife spread the trash around again.

Thinking back to the late 70s and early 80s, there were always trash cans at Lalo and Frenchies, where campers and divers used them religiously. But people aren't always to blame for trash - Algodonas, in those pre-development days, was usually almost spotless but that was mainly because the wind carried trash up the dunes and across the road to lodge amongst plants there. At Sanctuario, most debris came in on the tide - fishing nets and chunks of styrofoam, and sometimes plastic rings from soda or beer 6-pack cans as well as empty 2-liter plastic jugs used as floats.

Efforts to bring about cultural change also rely on involving others; in this case, touristas from outside the area. For starters, a friendly ad in UA, PCC, and ASU newspapers enlisting the assistance of students planning to spend holiday weekends and spring break in SC. While on the face of it the ad asks for help keeping their beaches clean ('their' personalizes the message) it serves to remind them not to leave trash behind. This tactic has been successful in Florida where beaches are the primary destination during spring break.

Finally, the next generations must participate on some level for the change to have a chance to become permanent, to be the new norm. Maybe something like a cleanup event where kids who participate can trade a filled grocery store-sized bag for an inexpensive stuffed toy?

I don't think punishment such as being fined will help at first. People will see trash everywhere and that not everybody is fined. I think they'll just get sneakier. To own the problem and take pride in clean beaches, it would be better to get their attention and give them a trash bag and a friendly smile. There will be a time for fines once trash is no longer normal.

I was born in '79 in the US, so a clean environment is all I know. If I saw a few pieces of litter here and there, I picked it up and disposed of it. I remember watching the "give a hoot, don't pollute" type of commercials.  More importantly, I always had encouragement from family not to throw trash around.


I will never stop picking up trash here.  I like to enjoy nature without worrying that my children will step on some broken glass, or other sharp object that has no business being on the beach.


My 9 year old son told me he actually saw people purposely breaking glass at the beaches! We were at Playa San Francisco today, and I picked up so many glass bottles and broken pieces of glass as I didn't want some jacka$$ deciding that breaking glass on beaches is entertaining!


The last time we were in Tucson, I bought extra trash compactor bags from Costco so I had a steady supply of sturdy trash bags for beach cleanups.  Too bad I haven't found strong bags like those in this area ...


My son is 9, and my daughter is almost 5.  Naturally they are going to be frustrated that they are making a strong effort to clean up the beaches, only to return to them covered in garbage.  I make sure they stick to non sharp objects, while I pick up the sharp ones.


My friend living in Ecuador with her family started a "Go Fund Me" account to get donations for litter clean up supplies. Naturally I donated. Too bad she doesn't have a Costco nearby where she can buy some "Kirkland Signature Trash Compactor Bags."


They are quite useful.

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 02:53 am
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ballenamar
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Mana: 
I completely agree with everything that has been said about the garbage issue. But, in fairness I think the trend is for far less garbage. For those of you who go back the 30+ years I have been here, you might recall the huge amount of garbage on the highways rights of way. Much of the improvement had to do with the gradual availability of public bathrooms. Garbage (including lots of toilet paper) disappeared from public view. It would seem to me that a more organized system of readily available garbage cans AND the regular emptying of these cans would go a long way. Couple that with some gentle and friendly enforcement much like the visibility of the cops at the new stop sign in SC for a few months. Gradually, people respected the sign.  

I also add that the idea of we anglos setting an example is a bit arrogant. Indeed, some of we anglos break environmental rules down here if it doesn't suit us and when the authorities are not looking. The Mexicans know this.

Last edited on Mon May 23rd, 2016 03:05 am by ballenamar

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 04:48 am
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johnmoore
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Mana: 
Biscuit, where was the fish smokehouse? What year?

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 03:19 pm
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TravelLover
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ballenamar wrote: I completely agree with everything that has been said about the garbage issue. But, in fairness I think the trend is for far less garbage. For those of you who go back the 30+ years I have been here, you might recall the huge amount of garbage on the highways rights of way. Much of the improvement had to do with the gradual availability of public bathrooms. Garbage (including lots of toilet paper) disappeared from public view. It would seem to me that a more organized system of readily available garbage cans AND the regular emptying of these cans would go a long way. Couple that with some gentle and friendly enforcement much like the visibility of the cops at the new stop sign in SC for a few months. Gradually, people respected the sign.  

I also add that the idea of we anglos setting an example is a bit arrogant. Indeed, some of we anglos break environmental rules down here if it doesn't suit us and when the authorities are not looking. The Mexicans know this.

I'm not Anglo, and I don't break any environmental rules, to the best of my knowledge.

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 04:35 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
here is a picture of me in 1970, i was a junior in high school. i am the guy in the middle, white t-shirts, cut offs!there was nothing on the beaches but sea weed! we picked up all our trash!

Attachment: Scan0036.pdf (Downloaded 119 times)

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 04:52 pm
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long time resident
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I came here in 1980. It was so much cleaner then ....We started a project for students to clean the beaches and along the road, and we fed them lunch, and had a piƱata afterwards. Lots of water and sodas, trucks to pick the big bags of garbage up, and we gave awards to the students for the most garage picked up. All of this was organized by the San Carlos Residents association, which no longer exist. We did this for several years. It made a difference. I do think that police giving fines to those that litter, will make a hugh difference. People will think twice, before they throw their garbage if they might have to pay a fine for doing it. Let me see 1980, it is now 2016, it has been a while since this concept of not littering was introduced to San Carlos. I think it might take some more time for people to understand that littering just doesn't benefit anything or anyone.

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 10:01 pm
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Bullshipper
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Mana: 
I have family members that after 40 years of gentle persuasion still take the effort to roll down their window to throw and spray beer all over their new trucks instead of dropping the can into the bag their wife always leaves hanging in the cab.

Go to a small town fiesta, and its young and old men throwing their cans around the plaza. Hasn't changed in 50 years.

Its not everyone, so giving a few tickets to the few that refuse to be considerate will not start a revolution but their money will go to help others that shouldn't have to pay or work extra to clean up their pig pens.

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 Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2016 10:52 pm
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ballenamar
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I don't worry too much about the beer cans. They always seem to get picked up by someone to sell at a recycle place. It's the bottles and plastics that get me. I've often wondered about making a suggestion to the engineering school at ITSON to have their students build and operate a plastics recycling facility as part of  servicio social requirement.

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 Posted: Tue May 24th, 2016 02:38 am
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Vince Radice
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I truly believe the only way that San Carlos will get cleaned up is when it is it's own municipio and then the new local mayor makes it a priority and spends the energy and money on making it happen. I have been involved in numerous clean ups over the last 25 years. It was about 23 years ago or so that our company Sonoran Sport Center completely cleaned up the beach at Martini cove and took at least three 55 gallon garbage cans of glass bottles from the fishing shack that used to be there.


There may be a way to persuade the new comisario to start dealing with the tremendous amount of trash found all over the place on the main road. I have not met him yet and am planning on visiting him soon. I think it would take a strong lobbying effort on our part and then we still are likely to get lip service on the issue.

Lately one of the biggest shames in San Carlos is the huge overflowing dumpster out on San Francisco Beach on the way to the recent volley ball tournament site. I was there yesterday and it was pretty bad. I am actually going out there this afternoon to take a picture of it. It is disgusting really how much garbage is there.


I have a running joke with a good friend of mine from Guaymas. To me San Carlos over the years has been turned into an open Cantina and a Fosa Septica for Guaymas. We are supposedly one of the biggest tourism draws in the state of Sonora yet when you look around the town you see the main road is piled full of garbage there are no public bathrooms and the beaches are filthy. When we the local residents pick up the trash, as we always seem to do, in some ways we are actually empowering Guaymas to not bother doing the job when it is truly the responsibility of Guaymas to keep the town clean.


We have no sewage treatment here yet on your water bill you are charged for sewage treatment. The water company itself charges us 5 times the legal amount that they can charge by law and continues to get away with it. They also loose 65% of the water that they pump through our aging infrastructure. That should be a crime since we live in a desert.


We pay around 100 million pesos a year to Guaymas in taxes and they give us back around 8 million. Many of us have seen the plans for a re-furbished Mirador Escenico and a new Malecon. I would love to see that but I truly think the priority should be new infrastructure for the water delivery system in San Carlos and sewage treatment. I don't think that will happen unless San Carlos becomes it's own municpio though.

I do realize that if San Carlos were to become it's own Municipio, it would be the 73rd in Sonora, that this would not be a panacea for all that ails us. But at least we could no longer blame our woes completely on Guaymas.

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 Posted: Tue May 24th, 2016 05:51 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
vince, i understand you frustration! but is becoming our own municipality the solution?federal government funding is calculated on population! if we remove ourselves from guaymas we lose the population factor.then there is the matter of the resident voters of san carlos.how large and how influential is the local population?being a national and voting in this district are two different matters!let's put the shoes on the other foot! "hypothetical"we are guaymas residents born here, live here, work here! we see the streets in guaymas a disaster, some neighborhood have lighting most don't! then we go to san carlos, road recently paved, street lighting! this might give some, resentment!  

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 Posted: Tue May 24th, 2016 07:53 am
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Vince Radice
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Mana: 
Federal and state funding from what I have been told is based on if you are a municipio as apposed to a comisaria. If San Carlos were it's own municipio then it could apply for state and federal funds more easily and then not have Guaymas skim god only knows how much off the top of the funds that come for said projects.

As I have stated in many articles on my blog, I don't think becoming a municipio will cure all of the problems we have. But there is little doubt, and decades of evidence, that Guaymas is not willing to deal with the problems of San Carlos.

And why should Guaymas care about San Carlos. There are perhaps 3,000 registered voters here? Guaymas has a population of 150,000 mas o menos. Guaymas does not have to care at all about San Carlos. In a nut shell Guaymas sees San Carlos as La Vaca Gorda. And they milk it for all it is worth.

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 Posted: Tue May 24th, 2016 05:48 pm
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contez
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Right to the point Mr. Radice!!!As usual!!! Great job, thank you!

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 03:47 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
i would like to see bus service at least 3 times a day, from san carlos out to paradiso! for 15 years i have been told it is coming!

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 06:28 am
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Biscuit
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Ian948--
No question about it, marketeers would make a major difference in getting something off the ground. I'd guess it would even be necessary.

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 07:06 am
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Biscuit
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johnmoore wrote: Biscuit, where was the fish smokehouse? What year?"
I remember it back to the late 80s but not sure about before then. It was approx a third of the way to Guaymas, a white building always kept freshly whitewashed. It closed around 2005 but I could be wrong about that and it was later. They bought the fresh catch at the docks and then it was delivered to them. The business was geared towards supplying product to grocery stores packaged for the consumer. They also opened to the public for an hour or so after the day's processing was done and they were cleaning up. Mesquite-smoked marlin, sailfish, cabrilla, atun. Yummm. Of course the fish varied with the season. Apparently other processors in big cities began underselling and that spelled the end.

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 02:40 pm
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johnmoore
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Biscuit, you are correct, that description has jogged my memory. It was there for a long time. Don't know if we ever bought anything from them, as there were a lot of smokers in Shangri-La and then later in Loma Del Mar. I think, tho, the main reason we didn't use them, was they seemed to specialize in game fish, marlin, sail, etc.

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 04:22 pm
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C. Croft
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Coin operated car wash in SC.

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 05:34 pm
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TravelLover
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frankiej wrote: here is a picture of me in 1970, i was a junior in high school. i am the guy in the middle, white t-shirts, cut offs!there was nothing on the beaches but sea weed! we picked up all our trash!
Nice pictures! Gracias for sharing them ...

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 Posted: Wed May 25th, 2016 05:39 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
i was skinny with full head of non graying hair!!

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