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 Moderated by: bartmanaz  
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frankiej
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Mana: 
most of the HOA's here in san carlos are in chaos!why??there is a trend of extreme apathy here! reluctance to be on a board no confidence in the ADMINISTRATORS!! rules and regulation not observed !the state of sonora has laws, "the sonora condominium regime laws"how many of you have read these laws? these laws supercede any and all CC&R's of the HOA's! i am attaching a copy of the laws in english! 

Attachment: condo_law_sonora_english.pdf (Downloaded 108 times)

Last edited on Sun Mar 20th, 2016 06:43 pm by frankiej

aloha
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Mana: 
whats your point? that americans/canadians made up their own hoa rules,totally ignoring mexicos 'rules'? mx 'trumps' nob rules and regs everytime. buyer beware...
moot issue...
 

Last edited on Sun Mar 20th, 2016 05:24 pm by aloha

johnmoore
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Mana: 
aloha, I do not think that was the "point" of the post. I do not live in a place regulated by an HOA, but if they are here, like they are in the states, they are usually governed by a few despot types, who may mean well, but somehow find a way to mess things up.

frankiej
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Mana: 
aloha, i was born in the USA! i have seen that usually the Americans/Canadians abide by the rules!
it appears the opposite of what you are suggesting i am implying!
the nationals and the administrators appear to be the greatest
violators of the rules!the issue is not moot! read the laws and defend yourself from the predators, who most likely have not read the laws and make up the rules for special interests!!

Last edited on Sun Mar 20th, 2016 06:47 pm by frankiej

aloha
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Mana: 
what r u talking about? there is one hoa in san carlos involved in numerous law suits to the chagrin of its gated community.you think those nob are law abiding?..you are generalizing. anyway,the mx laws supercede any rules the nob purchasers want to impose. I do not have to worry, as gated communities are not the reason I move to this country. I left those rules and regs behind. good luck with tryig to legitimize that huge disaster. hoa associations and mexico are kind of a contradiction of terms,imo. salud!

frankiej
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Mana: 
aloha, you are flip flopping! your post #2 you blame me for saying the americans/canadians make there own rules.
now in post #5 you ask if i think the NOB's are law abiding?
i do agree with you HOA's are huge disaster!!probably close to impossible to legitimize, but possible!!!

JZ
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Mana: 
frankiej wrote: aloha, you are flip flopping! your post #2 you blame me for saying the americans/canadians make there own rules.
now in post #5 you ask if i think the NOB's are law abiding?
i do agree with you HOA's are huge disaster!!probably close to impossible to legitimize, but possible!!!

Can you give us some examples of what you are referring to.

aloha
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Mana: 
me or Frankie? the subdivision next to soggy peso,(where many homes were destroyed beach front during Jimena) is in constant litigation. actually,its corruption on the part of the former board. vince radice has done an in depth 'investigation'. its a nitemare and had been going on for yr with no end in sight. maybe theres more up to date info...but as of a few mths ago,thats the status.

bombero
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Mana: 
There is more that one HOA in SC.

Bullshipper
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Mana: 
no problems in Solimar.

aloha
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Mana: 
solimar is a great community. I love it. and you are fortunate to have a good hoa. you must admit,wheather here or nob,most of them are corrupt. I watched neighbors loose everything due to one hoa swindleing.and if not corrupt financially,then you must conform to so many rules and regs, its like a scene for 'stepford wives' different strokes. muy muy triste...

Last edited on Mon Mar 21st, 2016 02:53 am by aloha

frankiej
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Mana: 
there are lots of HOA's in san carlos most have problems!1) no one wants to be on the board2) corrupt administrators!!!! election to a board , in my opinion is what you can bring to the table as experience!many are elected and are pleased by saying they are board members, but never have meetings or resolve problems!there are a few functioning HOA's out there!maybe someone could organize a meeting with all the HOA's and discuss solutions for common problems!

Ron & Karen
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Mana: 
frankiej , this is all good info - what was your purpose for the original post?  Are you experiencing problems?   All nations have some sort of underlying law about HOAs.  Just wondering. 

Last edited on Mon Mar 21st, 2016 02:05 pm by bartmanaz

frankiej
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Mana: 
i live here full time! i own property in 3 different subdivisions and 3 different HOA's.all with common problems, all with apathy! 2 with questionable administrators!every year its the same ole same ole!! just frustrated!!!!!!

Ron & Karen
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Mana: 
amen to that - we we're in a HOA also down there for 8 years, and then couldn't take the bickering and favoritism anymore so we sold last year.   If - or when - we come back it won't include ownership within a HOA.   Wish you luck and patience.

390pony
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Mana: 
I would never live where there was an HOA, in the US or Mexico.

TONY ABQ
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Mana: 
I understand about the hoa in San Carlos. We purchased our property over ten years ago and was told association was probably going to disband, thus is the caracol I am talking about. Here we are ten years later and finally they got our entrance up and running. What a joke that was. Lots lots of side room deals and back patting by a couple of people that affect everyone else who live there. Maybe now the nine month road debacle is finished the association will suspend  and due to lack of interest? 

frankiej
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Mana: 
people are elected to a board and they don't know what to do. they don't know the procedures of protocol!!they then have an employee, the administrator who has the same problem! it is the blind leading the blind!there should be "job descriptions" for board members and administrators! this way people would know what is expected of them!all should be required to read the laws of the land, in this case the"sonora state condominium regime laws" and the CC&R's of the subdivision!!this a lone would make for better operating HOA's!

AlS
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Mana: 
// Perhaps if they raise the pay of board members it will attract experienced, skilled members. //

frankiej
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Mana: 
it is a thankless and pay-less job!!touche!!! 

Kiwi
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TonyAbq.  Oh how I wish the caracol civil association would just go away but it will not happen as there are a few big egos up there with money and want to make a statement so it will continue to be run in a big fat mess against the will of many  That new gate area cost a fortune.

frankiej
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Mana: 
this is the frustration i am taking about!! it usually involves special interests and a form of extortion!i again ask for all to read the "sonora condominium regime laws" , they (some in the HOA) may very well want to impose the interests of a minority on the majority! you can legally stop this! if the HOA has not conformed to the laws, in past meetings, then they as an entity have no legal recourse!! the HOA's need to dot their "i" and cross their "t's"!! i doubt seriously if most HOA's in san carlos would be able to pass a government AUDIT!!

AlS
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Mana: 
If you don't like what the HOA is doing - you can always apply for this // exciting, high paying job. // Perhaps they would accept your job application.

long time resident
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Mana: 
AIS , they do not pay people on the board any where else, why would they do it in Mexico? The point being? If you live in a community, and you want to help improve it, great! HOAs are a pain no matter where they are, and many have most of the people in them, very dissatisfied. Do not buy in an HOA, unless you can live with all the BS it has to offer. I have lived in an HOA only once, and it didn't serve most of the people, but a select few. Now I know. The idea behind them is great, but most do not work they way they should, and you are right, the interest of a select few are served.

Flaco
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Mana: 
Tony ABQ, I quite disagree with you. I have lived full time on the Caracol for over 15 years. It has never looked better. The "expensive" gate and road improvements were not taken from any HOA funds. All were from separate donations from your neighbors. I am sorry that you were inconvenienced a few months. My guess is that you didn't contribute anyway but are enjoying all of the benefits that the HOA volunteers have done, including your street lights and water supply. Your side room deal accusation is pure BS. And no, I am not or ever have been on the board of volunteers. My sincere thanks to all of them. I am not jealous if they get a pat on the back.

Last edited on Wed Mar 23rd, 2016 09:21 pm by Flaco

Hook
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Mana: 
Looks like he completely side-stepped the question of funding.


"...were they asked about their rigs". Is it the duty of an HOA to poll each and every resident? Seems to me, the way it should work is for residents to SHOW UP AT THE HOA MEETINGS and ASK those questions. Did you do that, Tony?

And I'd love to hear the DETAILS (not the generalized accusations) about these supposed "side room deals". Out with it.

AlS
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Mana: 
There are *some* people who are ill suited to be part of any condominium type of ownership. People who are more concerned with doing whatever *they* wish to do regardless of it's impact. People who rail against rules. People who need distinct boundaries.

In my experience, most rules exist because of problems some person caused in the past - not because of some control freak running the HOA.

If you can live with just one rule, The Golden Rule, then you will likely be a good fit in a condominium style ownership

Hook
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Mana: 
Agree, Al.

I would add that some people are just "takers" when others give time and money to make things better.

Then, they complain about their "take" not being good enough. Go figure.

Flaco
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Mana: 
Lets just imagine for a moment how the Caracol would be in regards to traffic and security with no gate at all, CEA taking care of our water pila, pumps and sewers on their own. The city of Guaymas maintaining our roads completely over the years. CFE handling all our streetlights and the city of Guaymas to enforce building and construction trash laws on their own...... I imagine our friends like Tony would be inconvenienced even more.

I am not generally a fan of HOA's at all. But our group of volunteers and neighbors who contribute funds for these efforts have done a good job. There is are fine lines between being a conscientious objector, a shit stirrer or just a freeloader.

Righton
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The country club says they can't legally collect dues (in their minutes of Feb 2014) or enforce their alleged bylaws, but they threaten to lien you if you don't pay their dues. At one time they said you couldn't go to your home if you hadn't paid your dues. However Guaymas said they couldn't do that as Guaymas owns the roads. So they are now asking the realtors to collect back dues or don't close on your sale. What's next?

frankiej
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Mana: 
post #30 is a perfect example of what I am referring to! i have no real problems paying dues in an HOA, however i want the money's collected to be used properly! it is the job of the administrator to see that is happening! most however are not qualified for their jobs! the administrator should be finding ways to conserve spending, finding ways to cut down on the costs! it is the elected board's obligation to make sure this is being accomplished! they also have the same problem as the administrator, a lot are not qualified for their elected positions!HOA's are vital!!! they are important and can be a successful operation if they know what they are doing!! 

Last edited on Sat Mar 26th, 2016 08:42 pm by frankiej

Righton
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Informed property manager regarding all of the young drunks and loud music from 4 PM to 6 AM from the rental for the last two days. Was informed that he can't do anything about it since he can't enforce the by-laws as the HOA is not legal. Still requires HOA dues.

maryt
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Mana: 
If you think you are going to be able to do anything about noise during the two week school break at Semana Santa, you are crazy. No place is secure from noise during this period.

frankiej
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i went to a HOA meeting for the royal last saturday! it was the second annual meeting, or an extension!!??? the first meeting forgot to place the election of the new officers "board members" on the agenda so there where no board members elected! whose fault was this, the incompetent administrator or the board members who where elected for 2 year terms??? i think both!! there where many very unhappy people!! the legal counsel was completely incompetent in the advice he was giving. he was saying since they didn't have the 70/75% members to have a quorum the meeting was illegal!  the meeting continued and board members where elected. if the legal counsel had read and or was familiar with the state laws he would have referred to article 29, they could have and would have had a legal meeting!
complete chaos!!!

Last edited on Mon Apr 4th, 2016 05:50 pm by frankiej

Vince Radice
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http://sancarlos.tv/could-the-costa-del-mar-hoa-end-up-being-dissolved-with-former-board-members-brought-up-on-criminal-charges-and-face-deportation/

The above link is the latest report on the Costa del Mar (CDM) HOA lawsuit. I believe this is the only current law suit that they have been litigating at the moment but I can tell you that soon there will be at least one more and then possibly two more law suits after this one, which is essentially over.

As I read through some of these posts on this forum I am struck by frankiej's comments on the Front Royal HOA. It would seem that have taken their play book directly from the disaster that is the CDM HOA.

It sounds like the Front Royal HOA is violating their quorum rules as the CDM has done for years. That party might come to an end soon out there at the CDM if things don't change fast.

Anyone out there who can relate to what is called HOA Syndrome and also believes that illegal or fraudulent behaviors have been committed by board members should read very carefully all the stories I have done on the CDM and especially look at the link above and watch the video interview with the Francisco Velez Villa. 

The case at CDM right now I believe is precedent setting for the state of Sonora. If the board of directors of any HOA in San Carlos think they can get away with what some Members have been getting away with for decades now may be in for a surprise. What the CDM case shows is that the endless impunity for shady board member dealing's in HOA's can come to an end.

It should be a huge wake up call for residents and board members alike.

frankiej
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Mana: 
do newly elected board members assume the responsibility of the actions and decisions of past board members and administrators? the same question for administrators do they assume the responsibility for actions and decisions of past administrators??are they "new board members" & "administrators" liable for the actions and decisions of past boards & administrators????????i think so!!!

Vince Radice
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Mana: 
I would say maybe to that question of new board members being responsible for old board members and that might depend on the Judge who presides over the case. Remember that HOA law suits in Sonora seem to be a relatively new thing here. In my interview with Francisco he states that the Judge will only be interested in the board members of the CDM HOA who were in charge during the audit audit years of 2004 to 2010. 
What is interesting in the CDM though is now the CDM has to provide accounting all the way up until the present. That will show that the CDM at one time paid a lawyer around 22,000 dollars to defend the boy friend of a board member. The boy friend was a non board member. Totally illegal. There is a by law at CDM that says the HOA will defend board members but I don't remember if that is ex board members or current ones and it is possible that this by law was never enacted properly. So much has been done wrong out there at the CDM that it might be a blessing for them if the HOA was dissolved and another was started in it's place.

Angel
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Mana: 
I have read the condominium law for the state of Sonora, but I cannot determine whether it is MANDATORY to establish a HOA. Does anybody know? There is this old apartment building that meets the criteria to be considered a "condominium" and it may come to question whether it is required by law to form a HOA. Any input will be appreciated.

Righton
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Mana: 
I believe all of us who are involved in any HOA or thinking about buying into a HOA owes Vince Radice a big THANKS for exposing then for what they are or can become. Hopefully, someone will bring a suit regarding the Country Club HOA as they have admitted in their own Feb. 2014 annual minutes that they CAN NOT LEGALLY COLLECT DUES OR ENFORCE THE BYLAWS. However, they are still collecting dues and sending out late notices to those who chose not to pay. One person has put in writing that she wants an outside audit and they refused. Thanks Vince for your hard work.

frankiej
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Mana: 
righton, that is what this post is about! not just any particular board, most if not all!!!!!!

Last edited on Tue Apr 19th, 2016 05:34 am by frankiej

frankiej
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Mana: 
i think the san carlos country club HOA should be commended for the acknowledgement of their illegitimate HOA !! that is a start for proper legitimacy!!here are some questions that need answers for all the HOA's; 1) what caused the HOA to become illegitimate 2) how can we prevent this from happening again 3) what is the solution and options for a legitimate HOA?
properly run and legitimate HOA's are important and vital for the running and maintenance of gated communities! the dues "fees" collected are important for the operating costs! that is not the issue! the issues are how fees are used and if the fees are held, collected and distributed correctly! the boards and administrator bare the liability for this, past, present and future!

Last edited on Tue Apr 19th, 2016 09:45 pm by frankiej

maryt
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One of the problems that I have seen is the conflicting advice that one gets when trying to do the right thing with a Homeowner´s association. One year we would be told that we had to change all this and that and, of course, the ¨expert¨ could do it for us for a fee. Then the next year a different ¨expert¨ says ¨no, that was all wrong and you need to do this and I can do it for you for a fee.¨ Frustrating.

Righton
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Mana: 
Frankiej, the San Carlos CC did not say they were illegitimate. They said in the minutes of Feb. 2014 that they could not Legally collect dues or enforce they by-laws. To me that would indicate the HOA is illegal. However, they are still requiring you to pay dues. Many do not but have offered to pay their share for the security, but the property manager and board said no. They want you to pay the $400 usd dues, which when you look at the budget a third or more goes to the property manager for his salary. If you go to their website (San Carlos Country Club) and go to the Feb. 2014 minutes and read them I think you will find it interesting.

Righton
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Mana: 
Frankiej, the web page for the San Carlos CC is http://www.sancarloscountryclub.com

frankiej
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Mana: 
walks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck!there has to be reason why they can not collect dues!there are HOA's who have far more problems then the san carlos country club!!they are acknowledging they have problems, that is far more admirable than the HOA's who are in complete denial!!!!!! 

frankiej
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Mana: 
i made a post; "who are the best attorney's in sonora" this goes hand in hand with the HOA problems!! good attorney's have specialties, there are experts in this field! the problem which was alluded to in a post was one expert says this and another says that! "we", owners of properties and residents of HOA's sometimes have to much confidence in referred attorney's, merely because they are attorney's!! you wouldn't have surgery on your heart from a dermatologist, and so on!!!!!

Last edited on Wed Apr 20th, 2016 08:03 pm by frankiej

long time resident
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Mana: 
I was shocked when I saw what the property manager for the Country Club makes. And his expenses for his car are also covered.

Righton
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Mana: 
Number 47. My understanding the property manager at the country club not only gets a great deal of the budget he also runs his real estate and rental business while he's supposedly working for the cc, plus his phone and other expenses are paid.

frankiej
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Mana: 
this post is now covering 3 pages!! there seems to be focus on 2 HOA's ? read the posts, absorb the comments! it sounds like a lynch mob mentality! there is always at least 2 sides to a story! it looks and sounds because someone makes a comment, that they are praised or an administrator salary condemned! all this before hearing the other side????? the board, the board, the administrator, the administrator! when the obvious problem is the "system" !!! it is totally dysfunctional! why because there are no job descriptions, 1) what is required of an administrator? 2) what is required for an HOA president 3) what is required for the other board members? by law, every year a board must be elected or reelected. also the administrator is voted to stay or be removed! so why is there continual on going  problems? one reason is the problems are never resolved and allowed to fester to the next board and the next administrator! regarding the pending law suits in CDM, how many boards and how many administrators have come and gone since the original problem??? SCC the administrator was hired and his salary approved for him, by the board and HOA at the time of hiring. my intention is to find intellectual solutions to this multifaceted problem of ALL the HOA's!! pointing fingers and condemnation are not solutions! 

Last edited on Sat Apr 23rd, 2016 05:28 pm by frankiej

aligato
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Mana: 
As to post #43, the SCC manager/administrator wages etc come to 20% of the yearly budget, this includes the car allowance which is for his personal vehicle that he uses to conduct SCC business, includes driving to Hermosillo and Obregon and regular trips to Guaymas for parts, banking and dues collection. He provides his own cell phone which the HOA DOES NOT pay for. The other employee wages are for the two workers, sometimes 3 who do the general maintenance and clean up in the neighborhood. The SCC must also pay the IMSS, food and transportation as well as bonuses and other government mandated costs for these 2 or 3 employees. We welcome any questions at the AGM and would readily explain any of the expenses incurred to which all receipts are available.

frankiej
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Mana: 
post #50, thank you for showing the other point of view!!!

frankiej
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Mana: 
""roberts rules of parliamentary procedure"" what a concept, i'll bet there is not a book within 100 miles!come on people we are in the 21st century, try finding intellectual solutions on line!!http://www.rulesonline.com  committees / boards-IX
all HOA's have similar problems!! have the boards ever united for discussion? there are pretty diverse groups of people in every HOA, doctors, lawyers, bankers, businessmen, politicians, ect: all have something of valve that could be brought to table for discussion! there is a solution!!!!!!!!!

Ron & Karen
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Location: Bend, Oregon USA
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Mana: 
style="background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"Yeah - that's some clarity all right!  Everybody avoids specific dollar amounts, that way it just stays muddy and unclear to all those people paying the bills.    JUST HOW MUCH IS THAT 20%?      I know the question is just retorical - you'll never tell - and that is the real problem. style="background-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"  sorry about the extra stuff ; using a real old system

Last edited on Sun Apr 24th, 2016 01:35 am by Ron & Karen

frankiej
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Joined: Sun Jul 6th, 2014
Location: San Carlos, Mexico
Posts: 731
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Mana: 
post #53 what i can understand of your post, is specific clarified dollar amounts!i agree with you 100% !!! a persons salary isn't what you are paying out for that employee, you need to add all the legally required benefits required by law to know the the pay out is for each individual! i have been asking for years at my home HOA for clarity and every year i am promised an audience with the account, i have as yet had my audience!!

aligato
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Joined: Tue Oct 7th, 2014
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Mana: 
http://www.sancarloscountryclub.com/This link will take you to the San Carlos Country Club HOA site, just click on financials and all the info is there, between this site and the AGM not sure what more can be done to show HOA members how the money is being spent.

frankiej
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Location: San Carlos, Mexico
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Mana: 
thanks aligato. i am also a member there!! they have the best and only web site i am a where of in town! very innovative thinking when that site was up!!!!

Righton
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Mana: 
#55 Aligato. Please explain why the San Carlos CC stated in their Feb. 2014 annual minutes they can not legally collect dues or enforce the alleged by-laws and are still collecting dues. Illegal is illegal.

frankiej
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Mana: 
i would assume the fees collected are to maintain the on going expenses the SCC has, they are vital to maintain services provided, right or wrong!

frankiej
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Mana: 
HOA's so by now most have attended the annual HOA meeting how did yours go?

frankiej
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Joined: Sun Jul 6th, 2014
Location: San Carlos, Mexico
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Mana: 
i went to 2! one disorganized in denial! the other structured and efforts being made to restructure! 
i saw 2 different interpretations on how to conduct meetings and 2 interpretations on sonora law!
i learned from both, unfortunately neither of the boards are aware of the others conducts and what could usefully be used by each!

Righton
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Mana: 
#33. I know very little if anything can be done to the music and noise during school breat and Semana Santa. I referring to the weeking rentals in the Country Club where the owners rent their property to whom ever. Usually there are just drunks and party people who don't respect their neighbors.

frankiej
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Joined: Sun Jul 6th, 2014
Location: San Carlos, Mexico
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Mana: 
have your HOA set up rules and regulations the renters have to sign and adhere to!

Righton
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Mana: 
#62. They can't as they have no legal bylaws as their minutes say in March 2014. It's wide open here.

frankiej
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Joined: Sun Jul 6th, 2014
Location: San Carlos, Mexico
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Mana: 
elect a board that will get things done! your CC&R's can be revised and registered! 3 years is long time!



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