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Todos por un San Carlos Próspero, Unete!  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Mon May 29th, 2017 03:20 am
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Vince Radice
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Bullshipper: Citizens of Guaymas do not vote on whether San Carlos would be it's own municipio or not. It is not up to Guaymas citizens. There are essentially two paths. One path is that the state legislature in Hermosillo votes in favor of the referendum that will be put before them. They can vote yes or they can vote no. The other path is more direct. Utilize Article 39 of the Mexican Constitution which Juan Carlos recites from memory in the video. I will para phrase Article 39, "It is the inalienable right of any Pueblo to change it's form or government when it decides to". It is not up to Guaymas. It is up to the Mexican residents of San Carlos.

Baca: No one is asking Americans to sign this document.This document is not for Americans to sign. Also if you would watch the video, Juan Carlos not myself, explains why Ruben Pinto is an illegal comisario. We are talking about a Mexican national who has spent several years studying the law.

Visitor San Carlos: A person can not be the comisario of San Carlos if they hold a permit to sell alcohol. It is stated in the law. Again this information comes from Juan Carlos Gonzales and Victor Parra Maldonado. Two people who have spent a lot of time researching the law. Of course when has Guaymas ever cared about what is legal and what is not in regards to San Carlos, their cash cow.

Susanr: Yes please ask your Mexican friends to sign this letter. Which is a far better and more pertinent document that was written by a lawyer not an illegitimate comisario who just recently tried to sucker Americans into paying out of their own pocket to fix our ailing infrastructure. Remember why Ruben didn't invite Mexicans to the meeting? The few that showed up were in disbelief of what he proposed.

Jimmy: You are right on the money. What it takes is local Mexicans to simply exercise their inalienable rights under Article 39 of the Mex. Constitution.

Long Time Resident: Yes this is all about public services which Juan Carlos explains in the video. Guaymas is illegally denying San Carlos the services that it is guaranteed under Mexican Law. It has been well documented. Juan Carlos shows you in the video, that you obviously watched with great attention, all the painstaking documentation that has gone into this.

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 Posted: Mon May 29th, 2017 02:57 pm
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Jimmy
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How exciting. I can only imagine;


Dependable water and sewer service
Regular dependable trash pick up
Road and street repair and maintenance
Beach and area clean up
Police who are helpful and will not rob you or your house
A Comisario who has a vested interest in San Carlos and is not a  puppet of Guaymas
A town council to oversee what is best for our little Pueblo
Sufficient tax money to take care of local needs


What you can conceive and believe, you can achieve [Norman Vincent Peal]



 

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 Posted: Mon May 29th, 2017 03:42 pm
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GracielaC
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No sure if correct... Real Estate tax collection 195 million pesos. Budget for San Carlos are 19 million pesos. Anyone know better?

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 Posted: Mon May 29th, 2017 11:46 pm
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lasninas
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There are approximately 3,000 homes and 690 condos in San Carlos.  I don't see how the property tax could be as high as you suggest.  Averaging 7,000 pesos per home and 5,000 pesos per condo you get 24,450,00 pesos.  Just a rough estimate. Of course, this does not include property tax on commercial buildings and hotels, etc. 

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 01:54 am
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Richard Baca
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There are also all of the vacant lots and the fact that the high end homes and lots pay a lot more plus all of the hotels and commercial properties.

Last edited on Tue May 30th, 2017 01:56 am by

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 03:57 am
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Bullshipper
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Thanks for the explanation Vince.

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 04:09 am
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Danodamano
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You do mean $ 24,450,000.00 correct?    Looks like it would cover the current budget. 

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 04:23 am
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Vince Radice
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Guaymas is paid from San Carlos around 33% of its working budget from tax revenue. That is around $184,000,000 million pesos a year.

Guaymas gave San Carlos a budget of around 8 million pesos for 2017. That 8 million pesos is not for anything other than the police and the comisario office.

No money for infrastructure improvement or any other project for that matter. The comisario is never legally elected because they/Guaymas politicians don't want a comisario that would actually represent the interests of San Carlos.

Aslo Jimmy just to clarify. If San Carlos were it's own Municipio it would no longer have a Comisario. It would have a mayor or a "Presidente". Also it would have it's own court house and it's own Ministerio Publico. Now just imagine this.

What if we had a Minsiterio publico who was honest and would actually prosecute anyone who tried to get away with any real estate fraud in San Carlos! Wouldn't that be great!! And you are again right on the money with the police situation. Wouldn't it be nice if San Carlos had bilingual police that were not allowed to rip off local residents and actually were here to help?

Imagine how much money the city would make in speeding tickets here. I live one block off of the main road and anyone who has ever raised any kids in this town will agree that people drive around like maniacs here. One of my greatest fears was always that my kids were gonna get run down by a speeding car.

The Mexicans have to want this for their community. They could have it if they would be willing to fight for it. We shall see if that will happen or not.

Last edited on Tue May 30th, 2017 04:24 am by Vince Radice

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 05:18 am
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Flaco
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The only negative I see would be what if our Ministerio publico was not honest and put in place by an elected Presidente who themselves were ones that were involved in some of the real estate fraud? The Presidente would basically be in charge of the tax rates and have the purse strings of all the tax revenues, a potentially corrupt court house and private police force for protection. Many such scenarios have played out throughout Mexico in smaller municipalities. As tax payers who cannot vote we could be at their mercy throughout their elected term.

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 05:34 am
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VisitorSanCarlos
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where do these numbers come from.  is their any way to verify the accuracy.   it's easy to make this stuff up.  

Guaymas is paid from San Carlos around 33% of its working budget from tax revenue. That is around $184,000,000 million pesos a year.

Guaymas gave San Carlos a budget of around 8 million pesos for 2017. That 8 million pesos is not for anything other than the police and the comisario office.  

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 02:02 pm
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frankiej
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"the municipality of guaymas" how closed minded are we to believe that it is just "guaymas" and "san carlos nuevo guaymas" the tentacles of this municipality extend far and wide! how many pueblitos are included that need and depend on the MUNICIPALITIES police force? san jose, santa clara, la manga, la travasada, mayotrena, ortiz, and more and more of theses little pueblitos!
so if san carlos nuevo guaymas where to be annexed, who are the pillars from both parties who will run this "new community" for the years and decades to come??????
i am not sure if the tire needs to be reinvented as much as it needs to be improved!

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 02:25 pm
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Vince Radice
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Flaco: You are correct, being our own Municipio is not a panacea and does not solve all of our problems. We will still have to deal with politicians and city council members who will not be beyond corruption, police who will certainly not be beyond inept. But we all ready have that scenario now. At least they will be our corrupt politicians and our inept police. It will be harder for them to get away with corruption in a smaller town where people care and actually pay attention to what is going on.

A few summers ago I traveled to the town of Orizaba in Vera Cruz. Orizaba is a beautiful valley located at the base of Citlatepetal, El Pico de Orizaba, the third highest peak in north america. When you descend from the central plateau you will enter a 25 kilometer long valley. Roughly the distance between San Carlos and Guaymas. Within this 25 kilometer valley there are 18 separate "Municipios". Yes 18 separate cities with their own police own courts. Why? I asked my friend who lives there why? The answer was simple.

People don't want others who do not live in their town deciding how their town will be run.

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 02:29 pm
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Vince Radice
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Visitor San Carlos: I am not making this up. If you want to call up the people who have spent several years working on this I will give you their phone number and you can call them or you can go down to the palacio and start doing your own research. Nothing we do is "made up". Go talk to our Ex Comisario Pancho Alcantar who runs Blackies.

If you are in disbelieve and believe we are making these numbers up then get to work and start verifying yourself.

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 02:51 pm
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frankiej
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i don't think there is any argument regarding distribution of the tax revenues!
but what does san carlos nuevo guaymas bring to the table other than property taxes?
i have read many, many times that san carlos nuevo guaymas is the "CASH COW" !!!
is it? 
what are the 2 largest industries in the guaymas municipality?
i would say the sea food and agricultural industries out weigh every thing else!!
WHAT PERCENTAGE of the those MILLIONS of dollars "pesos" produced are placed back into "our" community???  
those 2 industries are probably the biggest offenders of "lost or un/taxed revenues"  
i would rather see pressure placed on those 2 industries, before i see my taxes double, triple, quadruple to support our own community!

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 05:09 pm
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Bullshipper
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I operated my mines in the Municipio de San Javier Sonoara, pop 800. The Pri or Pan gives it money to maintain the party line, and of course 4-10 milliion pesos dissapears after every presidente retires. There are also regidores, his cabient members so to speak, that also reap some extra benefits, and of course the town needs to install and maintain have its offices, jail, doctor, schools, etc. I wold also assume that SC would take responsibility for their own water, sewer, and have to upgrade La Manga if it lies within its jurisdiction.

The presidente in SJ makes about $30K pesos per month, but also has an expense account, vehicle, driver and a Hermosillo allowance, where they spend about 75% of their time on "official business" making their second homes there. The allowance is 4-5x their salary from what I am told plus what they siphon from the Municipo hardware and building suppy credit accounts.
So being presidente is a good job.

Last edited on Tue May 30th, 2017 05:14 pm by Bullshipper

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 Posted: Tue May 30th, 2017 05:18 pm
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Richard Baca
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Frankie, You're right, in the macro economic sense but we're talking municipal microeconomics here. The corporate taxes you are referring to are federal and state taxes; the property taxes we are concerned about are local municipal property taxes that maintain local essential services. It has been said by a current municipal official, that 90% of San Carlos property owners (mostly in fideicomiso) pay their yearly property taxes on time (to get the discount), while 90% of Guaymas property owners DO NOT pay their property taxes. So YES, San Carlos is Guyamas' CASH COW! 
Just look at the greater Miramar area of Guaymas. That sector alone would generate as much as San Carlos does if they were taxed at the same mil rate (which they are not) BUT more importantly, IF THEY PAID!
What "bullshipper" is referring to above is just plain outright blatant corruption, and yes, IMO we have it here too, as circumstantially evidenced by the current debt that Guaymas has accumulated with inadequate accounting of application of the borrowed funds. 

Last edited on Tue May 30th, 2017 05:25 pm by

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 Posted: Wed May 31st, 2017 01:59 am
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VisitorSanCarlos
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If you are in disbelieve and believe we are making these numbers up then get to work and start verifying yourself.

i am not in disbelife. i also have no reason to believe. not everything on the internet is true.  i asked for the source.  if you have one share it. as i said anyone can make up numbers.  i can make up numbers.  that doesn't make my numbers right.  

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 Posted: Wed May 31st, 2017 02:02 am
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VisitorSanCarlos
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8 million pesos is almost 430,000 a year or close to 40,000 per month. where is it going.

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 Posted: Wed May 31st, 2017 03:56 am
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Richard Baca
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Visitor, I don't know if the above quoted number is correct or not, but whatever the number is, it ain't gettin spent here! And therein lies the issue at hand!

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 Posted: Wed May 31st, 2017 01:32 pm
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GracielaC
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LIKE! (couldn't find the button... :-)

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