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ATTENTION ALL SC RESIDENTS!  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 01:35 pm
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61st Post
Vince Radice
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Mana: 
Visitor San Carlos, please understand this. The water company knows exactly what they are doing. They know where all the water leaks are. They know where all the sewage leaks are. By the way all sewage leaks can be reported to PROFEPA on line and I would urge people to flood PROFEPA with reports of sewage. It can't hurt.

Every single document in the folder of denuncias has been signed and stamped by the city of Guaymas. The city of Guyamas, the mayor and the Secretary know exactly what is going on here. We get all of the denuncias signed and stamped in Guaymas so that we can show to the state legislature and the Governor that Guaymas is corrupt. It would have been a complete waste of time to confront them with the file. Yes it would have made them a bit "more" uncomfortable but they were already uncomfortable there. I doubt very much you will ever see another meeting like that again in San Carlos but who knows, maybe.

 Did you happen to stay at the meeting till the end?

I didn't but I watched the video and if you did stay you would have seen the lack of interest demonstrated by the the high ranking Secretary Jarramillo, Lorenzo the Mayor's right hand man. He would have been the guy off to the left with dark hair who never spoke on the mic and was endlessly playing with his phone. If you listen to the bloggers and activist's in Guaymas they would tell you the guy is essentially a criminal.

Please understand that city officials don't care about San Carlos infrastructure. San Carlos is the cash cow for Guaymas and nothing more. This is why Guaymas does not allow San Carlos to legally choose it's own Comisario. Ruben was not choosen as Comisario by the people. He was what we say in Meixco a DEDAZO. The protocol for choosing the comisario was not properly followed. Welcome to Mexico. By the way, the law states that anyone who holds a liquor license can not even be a candidate for comisario let alone be a comisario. 

In other words the comisario of San Carlos will tow the line for the city. The most important part of that meeting for me was at the beginning when the comisario proposed that Americans should form a committee and pay for the repairs and then hope to be repaid by the city. Why did Ruben propose that? Because he knows that CEA will not do their job because the money we pay to them goes to Guaymas and does not return and will not ever return.

The only way forward for San Carlos is to become it's own Municipio. Then San Carlos could manage the water itself with out State Intervention. Yes that is right, most Municipalities manage the water from billing all the way to infrastructure. Guaymas is fairly unique in that the city council and mayor set the price but don't do the work to keep the system running. They part that out to the state.

Which means the city of Guaymas could change the rules anytime they want. In other words if San Carlos were it's own city it could make the rules and pricing for water.

Don't expect much from this 2015 to 2018 administration in Guaymas.


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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 04:35 pm
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Richard Baca
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The construction of the so called convention center just East of the Estero on the Delfinaro road came to a stop due to the change of governing party in Hermosillo. It had nothing to do with objections from SC, though most of us didn't like it. The governorship went from PAN to PRI, plain and simple. In fact, the former governor ended up in jail (for other reasons) illustrating just how nasty politics can get.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:07 pm
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Vince Radice
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The dismantling of the Zip Towers and the end of the Convention Center was brought about by environmental activism. Mostly lead by Victor Para Maldonado from the Non Profit, Guaymas tu Puerto. Our non profit WorldsAquarium produced media and filed a formal denuncia along with other NGO's and private citizens with PROFEPA. What was discovered during the proceedings was that the Construction Company never filed an Environmental Impact Study. Of course considering they were building right next to a UNESCO World Heritage site who wants to spend money on pesky Environmental Impact Reports.

http://worldsaquarium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Acuerdo-y-N-de-Adm-de-Acumulación-.2_0018-16-VR.pdf

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:09 pm
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ballenamar
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johnmoore, where did you get this quote from Vince Radice? If he did write it, there is a lot of inaccurate "puffing". I was directly and officially involved in Estero Soldado issues as were other scientists. The zip line environmental impact study work and final document were done by our group. Through the mayor, Otto Classen, that document was key to convincing the federal government to order the towers removed and to impose a stiff fine. In none of this work, which was done very quietly and in the background, was Vince Radice involved. In fact, our group feared that Vince would find out what we were doing and inappropriately spread partial and inaccurate information as has been his habit on other things he has done. We did all of this in secret because our careers were on the line had the previous administration chose to seek revenge for our work. However Vince claims to have participated in the zip line removal, I never saw him (nor was he invited) participate in those processes that ultimately removed the towers.

I might add that, in addition to our work, there was an ongoing community outcry by the citizens of Guaymas regarding the towers. It was this strong community support, partly due to Victor Parra's fine work and newspaper articles, that kept us encouraged as we worked in the background. The good thing about the whole tower fiasco was that it demonstrated to everyone, including the Anglo community in San Carlos, that Mexican's do care about their environment. In my mind, the tower fiasco served to solidify this idea.

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:18 pm by ballenamar

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:13 pm
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Vince Radice
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Sorry Bill but you don't always get the memos on the work I have done with Victor,

http://worldsaquarium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Acuerdo-y-N-de-Adm-de-Acumulación-.2_0018-16-VR.pdf

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:13 pm
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johnmoore
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Posts #57,  is where I read/found it.

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:17 pm by johnmoore

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:51 pm
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frankiej
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"holy cow" what a pissing match!!
there is a lot of resentment here in mexico due to the current politics in the USA! 
some of the opinions from both sides on this thread may be crossing the line!
i am a resident alien in good standing here in mexico! i want to keep it that way!
me being latino won't change the nationals minds, when they are thinking "pinche gringos"!!!!

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 05:51 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 06:19 pm
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Richard Baca
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Vince continues to be a "legend in his own mind". Please everyone consider the source. Ballenamar spearheaded the effort and got Mexican support vis-a-vis the zip lines and kayaking in the estuary. As for the so called "convention center", it was stopped due a change of Governor and party in Hermosillo though there was a grass roots "letter to the editor" (both Guaymas newspapers) campaign. It's good that Vince was with us on this, but neither he nor Mrs. Radice were in any way decisive on the issue.

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 07:18 pm
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johnmoore
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Frankie, what do you mean?

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 08:14 pm
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frankiej
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john, you asked what do i mean?  i "we" are guests in mexico, here by visa, or as permanent or temporary residents!! 
the politics, operation of municipal, state, and or federal agencies is governed by mexican nationals!
interference by foreign guests could and can be construed as unwanted meddling!
i am sure we have some rights,  regarding our payments of taxes and utilities!  but what is our actual legal position?
attending a meeting where only a few mexican nationals are present  and the NOB's dominate by over 98% doesn't look prudent in my eyes!
i have fixed my problems with the substandard plumping that came with the new meters at my house and my office! i have no water plumbing issues now! i solved my own personal water issues!

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 08:18 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 09:23 pm
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johnmoore
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Frankie, thank you for your reply, very well written and thought out. I agree with you, for more than 30 years what comes with paradise, had better be the DIY attitude and aptitude. My only concern for others, is the lack of water, and the unacceptable maintenance of the sewage system.

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 10:00 pm by johnmoore

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 Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2017 11:08 pm
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ballenamar
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Richard: While I appreciate your kind words, your comment “Ballenamar spearheaded the effort and got Mexican support vis-a-vis the zip lines and kayaking in the estuary” is simply not true.

The fact is that ALL of the estuary conservation work was conducted by a group of us who were appointed to an estuary advisory committee (Consejo in Spanish) by the State of Sonora under the previous administration. Our job was to create a conservation management plan as required by the federal government. We are a group of scientists who were all associated with TEC – Campus Guaymas in the Graduate School of Marine Sciences either as professors or as former students. TEC has a long history of protecting Estero Soldado. 

In the course of doing our work within the Consejo, we were notified that the State of Sonora wanted to build the zip line. Independent of the Consejo, our group worked as a team (no appointed leader) in the background to create an environmental impact assessment document. The assessment and the document showed a negative (bad) impact due to lots of human noise associated with the zip line usage and due to birds flying into the towers at night. We presented the document to the Sonoran Government authorities. We were promptly fired from the Consejo.

Two members of the group (not me) arranged a meeting with Guaymas Mayor Otto Claussen. While hesitant to attend, my colleagues wanted me to be at the meeting simply to show the “face” of the San Carlos Anglo community. At that meeting, and after reviewing our impact assessment, Otto Claussen appointed a commission of three people to leave for Mexico City immediately. The purpose of the mission was to present our findings to the federal authorities. 

A federal prosecutor showed up in Guaymas the following week to order the towers removed, to impose a stiff fine, and to close the estuary to the public. There was only one person who “spearheaded” this effort. He was Mayor Otto Claussen. The rest of us acted as a team of scientists doing their job as a group. 

The result of all of this was the removal of the towers after the state election when the new administration took quick action and removed the towers and is now paying the fine. The real credit goes to the marvelous and apparently unanimous community support that existed through the entire process as all of us did our work

Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2017 11:13 pm by ballenamar

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 Posted: Sat Apr 29th, 2017 12:59 am
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Richard Baca
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Well thank you "ballenamar". Maybe "spearheaded" was a stronger term than intended, but your efforts were/are appreciated by all in San Carlos and elsewhere in the State. I remember when it was suggested by a foreign developer to turn the estuary into a big marina back when jurisdiction was with the State. I and the chief engineer on the SIDEK/SITUR project went to Hermosillo to discourage this. And there were others. The whole situation deteriorated into the Llano Napoles dispute which is still simmering, but the estero is protected!

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 Posted: Sat Apr 29th, 2017 04:44 am
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VisitorSanCarlos
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Ugh

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 03:34 pm
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long time resident
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So back on topic, after reviewing what happened at the meeting, I can totally understand why the officials LIED. (as they normally do, it is political) The water bill has increased in the past ten years. (I have all the bills to prove it) The government didn't require that all the meters be replaced, that was a local decision. Nothing is going to change, because the powers in office do not want change. Yes, the water company is corrupt, and has been since I moved here in 1980. (this is not speculation, it is fact) After spending a few thousand dollars to put in water to the area where my husband and I were building, many others hooked up to the pipe, incorrectly, and the water company told us that once it is in, it belongs to them, but they have done nothing to maintain. Until the people that are controlling the water clean up their act, and take care of business as it should be, we will continue to have all of the negative issues concerning the distribution of the water. It all comes down to "who you know, and who you are". Something needs to be done, and I do not see it happening. Things have only gotten much worse. I hate to sound so negative about this, but it is extremely frustrating to see the steady decline in water service, and nothing is changing. Good luck with the petition. I hope it helps.

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 04:18 pm
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frankiej
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we have 2 threads with the same theme! one announcing the meeting, the other the petition!
i have posted on both!
 there is a common concern for the water and the legitimacy of CEA!!
i see a lot of finger pointing from the posters!  please remember for the one finger you are pointing 3 are pointing back at you! 
all the posters regardless of their individual differences have a common concern "the water"!!! 
that is what will unite the concerned and ability to do something!
ruben pinto, attempt was the forming a meeting, as commisario!
richard baca, sounding the concern for a meeting, time and date!
vince radice, video tapping the water leaks and concerned citizens, valuable statistics!!
all three at least making an attempt to do something!
frank romero; if you want it done, do it yourself or organize and get it done! 
i posted how i corrected my new meter plumbing problems at my expense!
vince has a video in one of these posts, where the neighbors organized and placed new water pipe!
that is the sort term solution for a long time problem!



  

Last edited on Wed May 3rd, 2017 04:19 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 09:33 pm
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johnmoore
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Frankie, the least of many peoples problems is a leaky meter......many don't know if their meter leaks or not...BECAUSE there is NO WATER to LEAK!!

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 09:37 pm
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frankiej
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frankiej wrote:all the posters regardless of their individual differences have a common concern "the water"!!! 




  

john, yes i agree!

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 09:47 pm
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frankiej
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Vince Radice wrote: Visitor San Carlos, please understand this. The water company knows exactly what they are doing. They know where all the water leaks are. They know where all the sewage leaks are. By the way all sewage leaks can be reported to PROFEPA on line and I would urge people to flood PROFEPA with reports of sewage. It can't hurt

this  makes sense!

Last edited on Wed May 3rd, 2017 11:56 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2017 09:49 pm
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frankiej
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long time resident wrote: So back on topic, after reviewing what happened at the meeting, I can totally understand why the officials LIED. (as they normally do, it is political) The water bill has increased in the past ten years. (I have all the bills to prove it) The government didn't require that all the meters be replaced, that was a local decision. Nothing is going to change, because the powers in office do not want change. Yes, the water company is corrupt, and has been since I moved here in 1980. (this is not speculation, it is fact) After spending a few thousand dollars to put in water to the area where my husband and I were building, many others hooked up to the pipe, incorrectly, and the water company told us that once it is in, it belongs to them, but they have done nothing to maintain. Until the people that are controlling the water clean up their act, and take care of business as it should be, we will continue to have all of the negative issues concerning the distribution of the water. It all comes down to "who you know, and who you are". Something needs to be done, and I do not see it happening. Things have only gotten much worse. I hate to sound so negative about this, but it is extremely frustrating to see the steady decline in water service, and nothing is changing. Good luck with the petition. I hope it helps.
LTR , your not negative you are a realist!!

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