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Paradise Canyon Ranch will amaze you!  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 02:58 am
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kiteboarder
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Mana: 
Our new golf course development! 
https://www.facebook.com/1128448290531571/photos/a.1128458453863888.1073741828.1128448290531571/1128753910501009/?type=3&theater

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 01:59 pm
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RichD
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Mana: 
Where is this going to be Don? Any idea how they will get water for a new golf course?

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 02:00 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
don, where is this new development and who are the developers?
we are at the end  2016, the only project i have seen under development is around paradiso out to la manga! 
they are having problems with water and are barely able to water their new landscaping much less a golf course!!

Last edited on Sun Aug 7th, 2016 02:03 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 02:52 pm
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bombero
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Mana: 
If this is associated with "Paradise Airline", well, enough said!

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 03:56 pm
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kiteboarder
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Mana: 
Yes, these are the same people that are bringing air service from Phoenix and Tucson to Guaymas. And yes, this is the development out by La Manga.
This should be great for San Carlos in the short term! Let me explain:
Their web sites emphasize that they are arraigning connecting flights throughout Canada and the USA. They are also emphasizing package deals. I believe that when everything is in place you will see lots of deals offering good prices - but only if you agree to a presentation to sell you a lot in the new development. You might even see a house or two being built. The development will fail, of course, and probably the airline as well. But it will bring a lot of people to San Carlos, many will return. I remember when the Plaza Las Glorias (now Marinaterra) had charter flights that brought a lot of people to try to sell their condos. They especially targeted Canadians.
They plan on putting in their own wells and claim that there is sufficient water to be had. I find it hard to believe. Even if there is a large aquifer to tap into there is very little (read none) recharge. The water table will go lower and lower. Even before they run out of water they may experience subsidence of the land. In Eloy, Arizona the land has sunk over 15 feet! Not good if you own a million dollar home on top of it. Some developments in Arizona have had law suits over this when foundations and wall cracked due to subsidence.
That's my take on it. What say you?

Last edited on Sun Aug 7th, 2016 04:25 pm by kiteboarder

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 04:58 pm
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RichD
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Mana: 
The aquifer on the Western side of the Algodones mountains would never support that kind of use. I fear that they will tap into the existing San Carlos water supply which is already shaky.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 05:02 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
don,  thanks for your response!  i will add a little to the "he said she said"  the owner/ owners of the project "pardiso/la manga area" are from obregon.  they obtained the property from a law suit.  i have seen the plans and have heard the subdivision will have a golf course.  the plans i saw did not have a golf course.   that i am not a where of is the partnership with the new airlines!  that is new news to me!
regarding the drilling of the wells?  that is also news to me! well drilling  is a federal and state issue!
i agree with you regarding the recharge of the aquifer!!

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 05:51 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
rich, there are no commercial wells in san carlos!  the water we use comes from wells on the east side of  hi/way (15),   santa clara,  san jose! 

i don't think obtaining water rights for wells for municipal use is as easy as some believe!
water for guaymas comes from an aqueduct from obregon!

Last edited on Sun Aug 7th, 2016 05:59 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 06:18 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
don, i reread your post #5 several times!  i think you hit it on the head!! 
your last sentence; "what say you"
there is a phrase attributed to P.T.Barnum;
"there's a sucker born every minute"


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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 09:24 pm
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RichD
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Mana: 
frankie, yes I know where the wells are that serve SC. My point was that, even if the developers could drill wells on their own property, there is not enough water there to serve a golf course for very long and then they would have to use SC municipal water which is already over stretched. If enough bribe money were spread around, they could get permits to drill. This is Mexico. I would hope any prospective buyers of property out there would talk to local residents first.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 09:58 pm
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odwyerpw
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Mana: 
What say me?

1. This will provide allot of fodder for the forums.
2. JJ will say a few more big donkeys and pacificos.

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 10:31 pm
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frankiej
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Mana: 
what say you? 
 looking at everyone that has posted on this thread,  all of us have been here for awhile!  we have seen things come and go!  we seem to be all in agreement regarding the water!  
supply and demand;  those are still the basic principles for success!
there are about a 1/2 dozen or more subdivisions from the bajia north/west!  not one has 100% occupancy  "infill",   some have a few "spec homes"  built years ago,  some haven't  filled their lots with homes for decades!  all have over 40/ 90% of their homes and lots "for sale",  with the average time on the market, YEARS!!  that pretty much describes the existing supply!
"demand" would be the only thing to warrant anymore subdivisions!
north of the border, investment has slowed drastically and the nationals are dealing with a 19.10/1 exchange!
this project appears to be some fanciful speculation! 

Last edited on Sun Aug 7th, 2016 10:34 pm by frankiej

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 11:09 pm
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Beau
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Mana: 
I heard rumor of a desalination plant for them and them only........:Xb

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 Posted: Sun Aug 7th, 2016 11:40 pm
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RichD
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I asked a question about water on their Facebook page and they posted the following response....

The project will include private desalination and recycling treated waste water. More details to come!!

Sounds good but they better have deep pockets. The existing golf course uses recycled waste water but there is not enough people here in the summer to generate the quantity they need. Desal is expensive. We will see.

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 12:02 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
i just googled "how much to build a desalinization plant" there where many articles from texas to california.  i read several articles, the least expensive plant was about 25 million!  even 20% of that price, $5 mil wouldn't justify that expenditure for a 100 + or -  home project!
of course i could be wrong!!!!!

Last edited on Mon Aug 8th, 2016 12:42 am by frankiej

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 12:50 am
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kiteboarder
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Well, they do claim that it will be "self-sustaining." I don't remember what the lot price was that I heard but it was ridiculously high. Maybe that is due to the cost of a guaranteed water supply via a desalination plant. I wonder how long it takes to build a desalination plant. Wouldn't self sustaining mean they would have their own power plant as well? They would need it to run the desal plant. Have they run any water or electric lines? Wow, they have a long ways to go!

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 02:09 am
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Bullshipper
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Mana: 
San Carlos gets lots of rain and has huge unused drainage areas, but there are an insufficient number of small wells and storage tanks to keep that water from being lost into the sea.

Well drilling permits can be obtained legally even in zonas de veda, where extraction is limited to 2" pumps at will produce up to 50 gpm each.

Golf courses can also use terterary sewage water, and after the water goes though that cycle, all it usually needs is chlorination to make it potable for further reuse.

Desalination plants are simple reverse osmosis plants, and can be be purchased as plug and play small units used for small homes up to city wide use. The produce a mineral free product, and a heavy mineral by product, and the % of each depends on the amount of mineral or salt in the water they use to process. Brackish water contains less salt than open sea salt water, so it ir mineral laden fresh water will produce more drinking water at a smaller capital and operating expense than saltier water.

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 02:29 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
bullshipper,  from reading other posts regarding wells,  you seem to be very knowledgeable!
however,  suggesting that that a 2 inch well is capable of pumping "50 GPM" , i think you may have made a typo error!  

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 03:05 am
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Bullshipper
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Mana: 
I said 2" PUMP, not well.

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 Posted: Mon Aug 8th, 2016 03:19 am
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frankiej
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Mana: 
what size casing do you hook up a 2" pump to?  are you talking about a submersible or above ground pump?  2" indicate input and or output. maximum flow through a 2" pipe is 45 gallon a minute. if from a 2" pipe it would have to be a little over 300" deep just to hold 48.93 gallons of water, unless you where pumping from pool.
some old style wells i have seen here, are a well hole maybe 2/5' in diameter with the 2" piping. "a pool"

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